A question about the Rules Vote meeting

[C4Autocrosser]

I didn't make it to the rules meeting this year, so I'm not completely informed. Bear with me for a moment please...

Prop#1 as I've read it calls for the elimination of the individual StockStreetTire classes and the creation of a PAX class for StreetTire competitors (amongst a few other things I know).

I've been read some of the new draft rules for '04 and it doesn't say Stock everywhere is says StreetTire in section 9. I hope no one thinks we're creating a PAX StreetTire Class for StreetPrepared and Prepared. My understanding is the PAX group will only be for Stock grouped cars.

Can someone clarify?
Thanks

:dancin:

[914 Dave]

My imperssion was that this "street tire" thing was to be a "pax'd" or equalized group for ANY car on street tires, so the prepaired or street prepaired cars would have a different multiplier to their raw times, to end up with a time for ranking at the end of the day. Don't know this to be for sure, so if its not, please correct. If this is the case, it'll be interesting to see how the multipliers are determined for each "class" of car, stock, prepaired, or street prepaired.

[MNbiker]

The proposed index Street Tire class would indeed be open to cars of all preparation levels - as long as they run street tires. The equalizing PAX factors used would be those calculated by Rick Ruth of Chicago Region SCCA. Rick's PAX/RTP factors are generally considered the "gold standard". PAX factors for 2004 may be found here:

http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/indexes/

Part of the reasoning behind allowing cars other than Stock to compete, is to allow cars that have run SC1/SC2 in the past another place to compete. Note - these drivers also have SM2 in the proposed rules, which several competitors were lobbying for.

The only classes not allowed to run in Street Tire would be STS and STX, which are already street tire-based classes.

-Steve

[914 Dave]

Steve, not to be thick as a brick, but how does that help us? I checked the site on the link, and found: CS= .811, CSP= .837, but no notation about how these modifiers would change based on "street" rubber or "R" rubber. What am I missing?

[C4Autocrosser]

===================
proposed index Street Tire class would indeed be open to cars of all preparation levels
===================
Definitely not the answer I expected!! We specifically removed SPST (last year?), have we specifically brought it back? We never had a PST class...

The Prop#1 text listed here
http://forum.mnautox.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=974&page=2
is where it DOES say Stock (doesn't mention SP & P) and is very clear.

It's the '04 preliminary rules where the "Stock" is missing (I'm told)...

Anyone else with a spin? I'm waiting for the answer I like... :D

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by C4Autocrosser
===================
proposed index Street Tire class would indeed be open to cars of all preparation levels
===================
Definitely not the answer I expected!! We specifically removed SPST (last year?), have we specifically brought it back? We never had a PST class...

The Prop#1 text listed here
http://forum.mnautox.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=974&page=2
is where it DOES say Stock (doesn't mention SP & P) and is very clear.

It's the '04 preliminary rules where the "Stock" is missing (I'm told)...

Anyone else with a spin? I'm waiting for the answer I like... :D



Try as you like, you're not going to get the answer you wanted!;)

I wrote the formal rules proposals AND the descriptions. They are consistent with each other. From the thread you referenced: "Replace existing Stock Street Tire classes with a single indexed Street Tire class." Note the lack of the work "Stock".

We discussed this issue extensively at the Rules Meeting, with just about every variation you can think of discussed. The consensus proposal ended up with a more inclusive Street Tire class, as opposed to a purely "Stock" Street Tire class. Since we have to use PAX with multiple car classes anyway, it was agreed this would be a worthwhile approach. Zero additional administrative overhead & a class that will allow a greater variety of cars to autox what they drove in on.

-Steve

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by 914 Dave
Steve, not to be thick as a brick, but how does that help us? I checked the site on the link, and found: CS= .811, CSP= .837, but no notation about how these modifiers would change based on "street" rubber or "R" rubber. What am I missing?

Okay, let me try to explain in more detail. The PAX factors represent the relative competitivenes of each car class, on average - the idea being to factor in differences between cars, to allow measurement of relative DRIVER performance. Since ALL of the classes allowed in Street Tire permit R-compound or race tires, these factors are still a useful measure of relative competitiveness, if we change the tire requirements FOR ALL CLASSES. That's exactly what the Street Tire class does. All classes follow the same preparation rules as normal, they simply must run tires licensed for highway use with a minimum 140 treadwear rating.

Here's an example, using cars of several MAC members:
PAX Class Class Driver Raw Time PAX Factor PAX Time Position
Street Tire DS Nikki Feuk 38.00 0.794 30.17 1
Street Tire CS Alex Lowe 37.90 0.811 30.74 2
Street Tire AS Salah Khuhro 37.36 0.828 30.93 3
Street Tire CSP Phil Sundberg 37.53 0.837 31.41 4

In the example above, using fictitous run times, Nikki would have won the class, as she drove better, against the PAX for her class, than the other drivers. Go, Niiki! :D

PAX isn't perfect, but Rick Ruth has used a lot of data, over a lot of years, to develop the numbers, so they're pretty solid. If you look at the PAX results at MAC events last year, the anknowledged "top drivers" were typically at or near the top in PAX rating.

Note: In the proposed Street Tire class, Prepared and Modified cards are probably at a bit of a disadvantage, versus the other classes, as their preparation rules allow "real" racing slicks, versus DOT-approved r-compounds. Therefore, Prepared & Mod cars will give up more "stick", when going to street tires.

whew!....Definitely more than $.02 worth!

-Steve

[914 Dave]

Thanks Steve, I was being brick-like. I was thinking of the current rules, that allow "R" rubber in the classes above stock, but not keeping in mind the basics of this class, that being prep it anyway you want, (for the most part...) but run 140+ rubber on it. Seeing it spelled out, now I get it.

David

[C4Autocrosser]

Thanks for the clarification everyone. Not what I expected...