SM interior question

[Kustom]

I'm prepping my Fiesta for SM and I was wondering what the rule is on the interior. I looked at the SCCA rule and it states:

H. Except as noted by these rules and the referenced rules, vehicles must be as originally delivered including all road going components such as lights, wipers, interior, heater, etc.
I. Rear passenger seat(s) do(es) not need to be retained

Obviously I can remove the rear seat but what does "interior, heater, etc." entail?
I'm specifically wondering about door panels, headliner, carpet, and gauges. Can I use aluminum panels for door panels (weight would be about the same as stock, just not fond of dirty orange vinyl). I built the cage tight to the roof so putting the stock headliner back in would be very difficult.

Any clarification would be appreciated.

Karl

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by Kustom
I'm specifically wondering about door panels, headliner, carpet

Yep, these items all must remain original (or close reproductions). Aluminum door cards would not be legal. Gauges may be replaced/changed. Stereo & speakers may be removed, if holes are covered.

Note - you CAN install race seats, which is a far more useful modification than stripping door cards & carpet - both in terms of weight reduction and driver environment.


-Steve

[phile]

Originally posted by Kustom


I'm prepping my Fiesta for SM and I was wondering what the rule is on the interior. I looked at the SCCA rule and it states:

H. Except as noted by these rules and the referenced rules, vehicles must be as originally delivered including all road going components such as lights, wipers, interior, heater, etc.
I. Rear passenger seat(s) do(es) not need to be retained

Obviously I can remove the rear seat but what does "interior, heater, etc." entail?
I'm specifically wondering about door panels, headliner, carpet, and gauges. Can I use aluminum panels for door panels (weight would be about the same as stock, just not fond of dirty orange vinyl). I built the cage tight to the roof so putting the stock headliner back in would be very difficult.

Any clarification would be appreciated.

Karl

Since you seem to be building a Prepared-Category car, why not run in Prepared?

Most of the reason my car is in Prepared is that I don't feel like putting in carpet and headliner.

Join us. It won't hurt.

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by phile
Since you seem to be building a Prepared-Category car, why not run in Prepared?

Most of the reason my car is in Prepared is that I don't feel like putting in carpet and headliner.

Join us. It won't hurt.



Phil,

There you go again, trying to recruit drivers into the "old guys" category! ;)

[Kustom]

I'm open to running prepared if I need to, but I'd like to keep the car road legal and still be competitive in my class. The way the car is now it would be to top of the line SM car or a middle of the road prepared car. I'd like to hear reasons for and against each class. What mods are allowed beyond SM in prepared? I can't find the prepared rules online anywhere.

Here's some pics of the car in progress

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/karlhacken/lst?.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album&.src=ph&.done=http%3a//f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/karlhacken/vwp%3f.dir=/Yahoo!%2bPhoto%2bAlbum%26.dnm=P1010224.jpg%26.src= ph&.view=t


Karl

[Kustom]

I'm open to running prepared if I need to, but I'd like to keep the car road legal and still be competitive in my class. The way the car is now it would be to top of the line SM car or a middle of the road prepared car. I'd like to hear reasons for and against each class. What mods are allowed beyond SM in prepared? I can't find the prepared rules online anywhere.

Here's some pics of the car in progress

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/karlhacken/lst?.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album&.src=ph&.done=http%3a//f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/karlhacken/vwp%3f.dir=/Yahoo!%2bPhoto%2bAlbum%26.dnm=P1010224.jpg%26.src= ph&.view=t


Karl

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by Kustom
I'm open to running prepared if I need to, but I'd like to keep the car road legal and still be competitive in my class. The way the car is now it would be to top of the line SM car or a middle of the road prepared car. I'd like to hear reasons for and against each class. What mods are allowed beyond SM in prepared? I can't find the prepared rules online anywhere.

There isn't really a straight progression from SM to Prepared. In many ways, they are parallel classes. Here are the biggest differences:

SM - gives you FAR more flexibility in drivetrain selection. If it says Ford on the block, you can install it for SM (as long as you meet some basic displacement limits).

Prepared - gives you FAR more flexibility in weight removal, including gutting the interior, lexan windows, etc.

I'm not aware of an online version of the Prepared or Modified rules. For a highly modified car like yours, it's worth investing $20 in the Book & CD.

-Steve

[Kustom]

Originally posted by MNbiker


SM - gives you FAR more flexibility in drivetrain selection. If it says Ford on the block, you can install it for SM (as long as you meet some basic displacement limits).


This is the main reason I chose SM originally. I am going to run a turbo Zetec with a Getrag 6 speed. Obvoiously this requires a lot of drivetrain freedom. The chassis is unmodified except for the cage. The suspension all mounts to the stock pickups but is full race components. Does prepared run slicks? Does the heater need to be functional or just in the car? Can I add ballist to make minimum weight?

Karl

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by Kustom


Originally posted by MNbiker


SM - gives you FAR more flexibility in drivetrain selection. If it says Ford on the block, you can install it for SM (as long as you meet some basic displacement limits).


This is the main reason I chose SM originally. I am going to run a turbo Zetec with a Getrag 6 speed. Obvoiously this requires a lot of drivetrain freedom. The chassis is unmodified except for the cage. The suspension all mounts to the stock pickups but is full race components. Does prepared run slicks? Does the heater need to be functional or just in the car? Can I add ballist to make minimum weight?

Karl

That engine would be problematic for Prepared. It pretty much dictates SM or Modified.

Yes, Prepared cars may use slicks, whereas SM allows DOT r-compound tires.

Heater needs to be functional.

Ballast isn't allowed in SM, per se. However, there are plenty of ways you could bring the weight up to the minimum, if necessary. Do you think you'll make it under the 1,900 lb limit?

-Steve

[Kustom]

The car weighs about 1800 lbs stock. There is a similarly prepared (without interior though) car in UK that weighs 1665 lbs. The interior pieces in these cars are very light and it has very few. I have more aluminum in the suspension than he does but I have the turbo to offset it. The Zetec is lighter than the stock Kent but the Getrag is a little more, so again a wash. Seats should be lighter stock. I could go on but I am guessing it will be under 1900 lbs. I won't know for sure until it is all together. Do I need to run bumpers in SM? If so would euro bumpers be legal in place of the ugly as sin US versions?

Karl

[MNbiker]

Bumpers will need to be stock. If they're just chrome bumpers, there's not much you can do. If they're soft, you could replace the skins.

Sounds like an interesting car - not many SM cars are built anywhere near the weight minimums.

A few ideas for additional weight:

1) subframe braces. They can only run side-to-side (no x-members or connections betwwen braces), but nothing says they have to be light. This puts the weight REAL low, and also has structural benefits.

2) seats. A nice steel "reinforcement plate" on the bottom of each seat.

3) audio. A sturdy, metal-bottomed subwoofer box in the rear hatch. Nice way to shift some weight rearward.

-Steve

[SaturnRaycer]

Why not run modified? You seem to be caught in a bind between SM and prepared. There's nothing to say that a Modified car can't still be street-legal (drive to the event rather than trailer it everywhere).

I suspect that the combination you envision with a nearly-gutted shell and a turbo Zetec would be something to fear - especially when well driven. My $.02

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by SaturnRaycer
Why not run modified? You seem to be caught in a bind between SM and prepared. There's nothing to say that a Modified car can't still be street-legal (drive to the event rather than trailer it everywhere).

I suspect that the combination you envision with a nearly-gutted shell and a turbo Zetec would be something to fear - especially when well driven. My $.02

Maybe locally - but you'd only need to go as far as Iowa to have your $ss handed to you in Modified. The car would be 400 lbs overweight and otherwise disadvantaged, versus the Lotus clones in D Mod.

Karl really is building a protoypical SM car. It should be a beast, if/when properly sorted.

-Steve

[Kustom]

I gutted the car down to the bare shell and started from that point on the build. I am in the process of putting it back together now so I can add pieces to get back to any class. Has there a been a nationally competitive FWD car in SM. My ultimate goal with this thing is to work up to running at a national level, will I be able to compete? I am shooting for 300 hp at 1900 lbs, it should be a rocket if I can get it hooked up. What is the rule on the fuel tank in SM? I would like to fab up a nice aluminum unit that fits the stock mounts but is foam filled and will accept my dual fuel pump setup. Is this going to be legal or do I need to start with the stock tank? Another question, the rear suspension on a Fiesta has a tubular axle (think of a truck axle without the diff) and uses the shocks to transfer the brake torque (shock is in bending moment) into the chassis. I have converted to a coilover shock (stock mounts) that functions as a normal shock (no bending), this required new suspension links to be added to control brake torque (from 2 links to 4 links). The lower links bolt into the stock locations and the new ones are added in addition to the 2 stock links. Will this be legal since I haven't disturbed the stock mounting points?

Karl

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by Kustom


I gutted the car down to the bare shell and started from that point on the build. I am in the process of putting it back together now so I can add pieces to get back to any class. Has there a been a nationally competitive FWD car in SM. My ultimate goal with this thing is to work up to running at a national level, will I be able to compete? I am shooting for 300 hp at 1900 lbs, it should be a rocket if I can get it hooked up. What is the rule on the fuel tank in SM? I would like to fab up a nice aluminum unit that fits the stock mounts but is foam filled and will accept my dual fuel pump setup. Is this going to be legal or do I need to start with the stock tank? Another question, the rear suspension on a Fiesta has a tubular axle (think of a truck axle without the diff) and uses the shocks to transfer the brake torque (shock is in bending moment) into the chassis. I have converted to a coilover shock (stock mounts) that functions as a normal shock (no bending), this required new suspension links to be added to control brake torque (from 2 links to 4 links). The lower links bolt into the stock locations and the new ones are added in addition to the 2 stock links. Will this be legal since I haven't disturbed the stock mounting points?

Karl

Karl,

You definitely need to get a rulebook, and study it carefully. There are a number of places you can get yourself in trouble, as each class has it's own set of idiosyncrasies.

Also, I'd spend some time at these haunts, reading past threads and getting to know the SM crowd.
http://www.sccaforums.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/forum/42.html
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/stu/
http://www.wincom.net/trog/stu/


Fuel cells within 20% of original capacity are allowed. They need to meet SCCA road race rules, so the safest bet is to go with something from ATL, Fuel Safe, etc.

Suspension is free, as long as you use the original chassis mounting points. It's hard to tell from your description whether you're 100% legal or not.

There are several Nationally-competitive front-drive SM cars, but I don't think anyone has pushed the envelope very far yet. Last year at Nationals, the following FWD cars trophied in SM:

4th '94 Honda Civic
5th '77 VW Scirocco
7th '86 Honda Civic
9th '98 Honda Civic

Neal Tovsen's Scirocco was the only one near the minimum weight, and none of them were making huge horsepower. Note - there were at least a dozen other FWD cars running SM at Nationals.

-Steve

[ps13drifter]

just give up and run in E-mod with me :D that way my 240 has somebody to play with and then you can do whatever you want to your car!

[Bill Owen]

OT:

Neal Tovsen's Scirocco was the only one near the minimum weight, and none of them were making huge horsepower.

Holy Cow! I remember bringing Neal to his very first event (Commangsac) here before he moved to Florida. Its great to hear hes kicking butt.

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by Bill Owen
Holy Cow! I remember bringing Neal to his very first event (Commangsac) here before he moved to Florida. Its great to hear hes kicking butt.

I was working impound at Nationals for Neal's run group, and spent quite a bit of time talking with him. Neal's a great guy, who still considers himself a Minnesotan. His car was probably the lightest SM car at Nationals, but was only making 160-180whp. However, he drove the wheels off it - especially in the rain.

-Steve

[Kustom]

If the rest of the FWD's are running low HP and are competitive am I going to hurting myself with too much HP? I know alot will have to do with the car and how it is setup, but how much HP can 1900 lb FWD car handle? I'd like to hear some thoughts on this (actual examples would be a plus). What tire/wheel setups do the front running FWD SM cars run? Where can I get ahold of a SCCA rule book locally? Do I need the GCR?

Karl

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by Kustom
If the rest of the FWD's are running low HP and are competitive am I going to hurting myself with too much HP? I know alot will have to do with the car and how it is setup, but how much HP can 1900 lb FWD car handle? I'd like to hear some thoughts on this (actual examples would be a plus). What tire/wheel setups do the front running FWD SM cars run? Where can I get ahold of a SCCA rule book locally? Do I need the GCR?

Karl

The top FWD SM cars could use a little more something, as they're not winning. In talking with Neal, he indicated more power would be helpful. Hard to say exactly how much is too much - the point at which you can't use it and/or the engine weighs too much, and screws up the handling, I guess.

225/45-13 Hoosiers on light race wheels (Keizer or similar). Newer cars typically can't run the 13's and have to go for something larger in diameter & heavier.

We have SCCA rulebooks in the MAC timing trailer. You can pick up one at any event for $20. Otherwise, you can order one online at http://www.scca.com. Assuming you stay in SM, you can probably do without the GCR.

-Steve