Spring Sprint

[AQuimby]

Just wondering if anyone is going to the Spring Sprint in La Crosse on the 23rd. I'm hoping to se some familiar faces.

Adam Q

[pinhead]

Hey Adam,

I might go. I'm thinking that IF I can get my sticky tires arranged for the Mini, I'll go to Milwaukee. If I don't, I'll go to LaCrosse. So we'll see!

[MNbiker]

I'll be in Milwaukee. It's not that much further for me, and I'd rather drive a Jeff Cashmore-designed course than deal with the 4 foot tall, car eating slalom cones in LaCrosse. ;)

-Steve

[JimsWRXSTi]

I have been planning on going since I live in Rochester it is about as far away (or closer) than the cities for me. But wait, what about the 4' tall cones - Steve? Are you sure they are still using something like that? I hear you, why would anyone want to slalom through that? Has anyone else been to the La Crosse Speedway?

[weidnerpaul]

I've been to Lacrosse twice, it's a circle track with a lane thru the center too, they use both. I'd say the intimidation & car risk comes from the 4 foot poured concrete walls, last time I was there I saw several cars get close to the wall and as events go I'd rate it as risky.

Hey Alex, can you add to this, I think you mentioned something about the cone placement being poor in relation to the track camber and the wall?

If it was me I'd drive further to a better site...

Paul

[AlexL]

I've been there a couple times, and I don't have much desire to go there again.

When they set up a course where you have to come out of a corner at 65+ MPH directly into a box that would be painfully tight at half that speed, and then go though a decreasing slalom on a banked surface with a wall on one side, it's hard to want to go back.

The giant cones are another good reason to stay away. I don't know if they're quite 4', but they're definitely big enough to damage your car.

[AlexL]

Originally posted by weidnerpaul
Hey Alex, can you add to this, I think you mentioned something about the cone placement being poor in relation to the track camber and the wall?
I started writing my post before I even saw yours. You read my mind (or did I read yours?).

[StevenMosley]

Wow!!! Forty foot cones!!

Seriously, you guys are making a mountain out of nothing. If you don't feel comfortable doing maneuvers at 50-60mph you should probably stay on a safe parking lot. When you go you will see a lot of drivers fold like a deck of cards and blame the site or the cones. I have driven the track 10 or more times and have had zero problems with walls or cones and I drive very aggressive there.

The site is really a rush if you are confident and attack it. The threshold braking maneuvers and banked corners make this a rush and very unique. The other thing that makes this event so sweet is you can have passengers all day. So bring your friends and give them rides and ask other drivers for rides. Just go and have fun!!

I would be going, but COM’s BIR event is that weekend and I am addicted to that event. I am hoping my brother can show me how ran a 1:56 on his first lapping session at the big track last week.

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by StevenMosley

Seriously, you guys are making a mountain out of nothing. If you don't feel comfortable doing maneuvers at 50-60mph you should probably stay on a safe parking lot. When you go you will see a lot of drivers fold like a deck of cards and blame the site or the cones. I have driven the track 10 or more times and have had zero problems with walls or cones and I drive very aggressive there.

The site is really a rush if you are confident and attack it. The threshold braking maneuvers and banked corners make this a rush and very unique. The other thing that makes this event so sweet is you can have passengers all day. So bring your friends and give them rides and ask other drivers for rides. Just go and have fun!!


Danger (real or perceived) has nothing to do with my disdain for LaCrosse. I simply don't like Rick's course designs, and prefer to hone my skills on something that more closely resembles a "normal" Solo2 venue.

For those looking for variety, circle-track courses can be a fun change of pace. I'll probably do the Elko event this Fall.

-Steve

p.s. You adrenaline junkies should try descending Porcupine Rim on a mountain bike some time......18-24" wide trail with 200'-300' dropoffs. Now THAT's a rush! :D

[SalahK]

Originally posted by StevenMosley
I am hoping my brother can show me how ran a 1:56 on his first lapping session at the big track last week.


What car did he get a 1:56 in?

My time in the Type-R was 2:02. The car was stock with Azenis.
I did a Track day in my Evo last year but I didn't get to time myself.

Last year Russ Wiles did a 1:51 in his E36 M3 lightweight. The car had quite a few mods but that is still a very fast time for a car with under 300 bhp, especially at a horsepower track like Brainerd.

[AQuimby]

Milwaukee sounds like it would be a fun event but it would be about a five hour drive for me where La Crosse is only a two hour drive.

Adam Q

[weidnerpaul]

Originally posted by AlexL


Originally posted by weidnerpaul
Hey Alex, can you add to this, I think you mentioned something about the cone placement being poor in relation to the track camber and the wall?
I started writing my post before I even saw yours. You read my mind (or did I read yours?).

Alex,
Great minds think alike?
Paul

[C4Autocrosser]

Salah-
I think Chris may have had a malfunctioning stop watch... :D

But really... Driving Ron Marks' 04 (stock) Z06. Apparently tippy toeing through turn one, temps just under 40 degrees on street tires. Now he wants a C5, go figure...

Dave
COM

[StevenMosley]

Milwaukee is fun and I'm sure Jeff will design one hell of a course, but that is a long ass drive when you have an event that is much closer and is 80-90% as fun. I think can think of a few things that I would rather do with my 6 hours. I would save Milwaukee for a day when there is nothing local.

If this is your first SCCA-LOL at event La Crosse speedway I would suggest the following:
-Arrive no later then 9am
-Get a number between 10-20. (The run order is by car number)
-Walk the course and pay close attention to where you exit the little inner track and merge onto the outer track. (dnf city)
-Watch the first five cars and get ready
-Ask Mark Konrad for a ride. He drives the blue Corvette with a cage. Tell him that I sent you. This will be the funniest thing you do all day.

For the people that live in the TC area don't forget to the PCA event. It sounds like they are planning a COM’ish course design. Meaning fun! And if they don't get enough support for this event the odds are they will not host another and we don’t want that to happen.

[ITSrotary]

My $.02,

I think anyone considering running that venue should do so and form their own opinion as to what's acceptable and what's not. It is a unique site and has some elements you won't see at a "typical" parking lot event. I've run some fun courses there and quit early on others. They are pretty limited as far as course design due to the confines of the track. There is in my opinion very little room for error at the speeds you run in some sections. I have used 3rd gear in my M3 on the main straight.

As I mentioned in another thread, for me personally the walls are less of a concern than the use of 3 foot high cones. Hitting one of those at 40+ mph is not my definition of fun. Several cars were damaged at the Fall event from hitting these beasts. I had cone marks on the mirrors of my Miata. I've also bottomed out my M3 coming onto the transition from the banking and done damage.

For me I just won't put the cars at risk anymore.

Just my opinion and experiences.....

Steve

[haro]

I went to LaCrosse 6 times. My perspective......I saw only one car hit the wall and it was minor. Just don't spin. Ever. Alex mentioned "painful", very true. I always saw one or two "painful" elements there. The cones are waist high on me, so they are close to 3' tall and heavy. Do not hit one. I have seen parts flying off the front of some cars after hitting these monsters. The surface has never (in my experience) had much grip. I attribute that to the oil-slicked bank. On the other hand, the events are well run, even if the venue is not ideal. It can still be fun, I suppose.
If you are traveling to LaCrosse from the north, check out Highway 108 between Melrose and West Salem. You will not regret it!

[StevenMosley]

Remember cars are just metal, plastic, rubber, paint, etc. They are disposable and rarely increase in value.

If you are hitting cones in a manner that cause damage to your car you are probably going to fast and out of control. I have hit them head on sliding sideways and about every angle you can imagine. The cone snot rubs out, but if you leave them on your car they make great battle scars/trophies and provide lasting memories. The only damage I have occured is from parts that were not fastened properly to begin with. As for bottoming out, The only place I have seen that to be a problem is the transition from inner to outer oval. Sometimes the course designer doesn't know how big of a hike this is until you do it at speed. If this is the case on Sunday. Talk to Dan Hampton the EM and course designer. He is a sensible person and will listen to your requests.

BTW: PCA club has an event at Saint Cloud on the 23rd also.

[washburn]

Originally posted by StevenMosley


Wow!!! Forty foot cones!!

Seriously, you guys are making a mountain out of nothing. ....


I'm not speaking out against LaCrosse or anything, I've run there many times, but making light of your customers concerns means you will eventually lose customers. Approaching a 3 foot tall cone in a Formula Car is downright scary, and the weight of them can bend a control arm!

It's very convenient to simply say "well, don't hit cones", but you know better. My point is that while you can say "it's just the way things are" and belittle competitors for not wanting to face these things, continuing to refuse to change anything means that people will vote with thier feet. Is there any reason some smaller cones couldn't be bought? I mean, if people are complaining about car damage from them, why wouldn't you want to make a change to address those concerns? Just a thought.

Pat

[ITSrotary]

Steve,

I don't share your point of view on a number of your comments but that's ok, we can agree to disagree.

Thanks for the life lesson on cars. This isn't my racecar and this isn't racing. I shouldn't have to be prepared to write off the car in order to compete.

Hitting a cone and doing damage doesn't necessarily mean you are too fast and/or out of control. It's part of the game. I think a time penalty is enough, it shouldn't cost you $$$ too.

Auto-x to me isn't about who has the biggest "balls" and who can accumulate the most battle scars. There's other forms of motorsport that can fill that role.

Sorry if my comments hit a nerve, I was merely offering my experiences and comments on that site. As I started my original post, I still encourage people to attend an event there and draw their own conclusions.

Believe it or not I actually don't hate the place.

Steve

[AQuimby]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm not worried about the cones. My car is not exactly in prime condition anyway. However the walls everybody is talking about could be a bit intimidating (did I spell that correctly) It would be very discouraging to wreck my car on my fourth even. Plus I need to get home. I still am going to go I'm sure it will be fun, and I would like to see what all this fus is about. :argue:

Adam Q

[ITSrotary]

Ha Ha!

Don't read too much into comments made on the board. Just a difference of opinion, no big deal.

Glad to see you haven't been discouraged from attending the event. You'll have a good time and that's what it's all about.

Steve

[StevenMosley]

Adam,

Let me know how it goes. To maximize your fun try and get a ride with
a few different drivers. (think blue corvette) Don't worry about the walls.
I'm sure Dan Hampton is setting up a great safe course.

Steven

[AQuimby]

Spring sprint was fun, ten runs and got home in time for supper. I Also brougt home a trophy. Didn't care about the BIG CONES didn't even seem like the walls were there. Although if I was driving a more powerful car they may have been an issue. Only two dissapointments. The rain was one. Second, when I first started autocrossing I was told that my car is an HS car. When I registerd They told me that my car is a GS car. Correct me if I am wrong A Ford Probe GT is a GS car but a base model Ford Probe is an HS car. I hope I am right because my 4cyl auto probe (yes I said auto) will not do so well in GS against the SVTs and R/Ts. That would suck.


Adam Q

[JimsWRXSTi]

Well I went into the Spring Sprint event concerned after reading all the posts. It was a blast. As fun as Valley Fair if not more fun due to the 10 runs and the high speeds. Cones weren't a problem and not all of them were 3' some were regular cones. The walls weren't a problem either. The banked corners were a lot of fun. Though there were only 20 cars I was 3rd FTD and 2nd in my class. Mark in the Blue Vette was FTD (of course and I did get a ride with him. Wow!) another STi was 2nd FTD. I really liked the 2 parade laps.

Adam, I didn't figure out who you were until the end. I had hoped to say hi at least. Nice job by the way!

[pinhead]

Quimby - Moutons.org isn't official, but it actually does list all 93+ Ford Probes in GS. I thought the 4 banger was in HS, too.

[StevenMosley]

I'm glad you guys had fun. Hopefully I can make it down to the next event at the track. Anytime you can get 10 runs on a 50+ second course it is a very very
good day.

[phile]

Originally posted by StevenMosley


I'm glad you guys had fun. Hopefully I can make it down to the next event at the track. Anytime you can get 10 runs on a 50+ second course it is a very very
good day.


10 runs. 20 cars. 200 total runs. Even with a relatively-leisurely launce rate, that would take less than two hours. Did you all go home at 1:00?

Or did they run one car at a time? In that case, a cycle could take about a minute, so it would take more than 3 hours.

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by AQuimby
Second, when I first started autocrossing I was told that my car is an HS car. When I registerd They told me that my car is a GS car. Correct me if I am wrong A Ford Probe GT is a GS car but a base model Ford Probe is an HS car. I hope I am right because my 4cyl auto probe (yes I said auto) will not do so well in GS against the SVTs and R/Ts. That would suck.


All 93+ Probes are in GS. Only the 89-92 non-turbo, 4 cylinder Probes are in HS. Here are the verbatim listings from the '04 Rulebook:

G Stock (GS)
Probe (93+) (all)
Probe (’89 to ’92), 4 cyl. turbo and V6

H Stock (HS)
Probe (89-92), 4 cyl. non-turbo

-Steve

p.s. Glad you had a good time!

[AQuimby]

That really sucks! I don't think I can be very compeditive in GS. Adam Ansorage drove my car and drove Pauls Cooper S on the same day at the same course. His time in my car was ten seconds slower than his time in the Cooper S. He is a very good consistant driver. Mabey I should compete in STS or somthing, I don't know. Any suggestions besides getting a new car.

Adam Q

[washburn]

Much of that time is due to the auto tranny I'm sure. Also, is your car fully prepared? The Probe/MX6 cars need alignment and tires to get near their potential, while a Mini can be brought up to speed right out of the box. (BTW, I've seen 4 cyl cars do just as well as their 6 cyl counterparts.)

I think your better approach...for the time being...is to drive whatever your driving to it's fullest before you start to fret too much over poor car classing. How far off Adam were you in your car? When you can get to within a couple tenths of Adam in the same car, not too damn easy I might add, then you can start to worry about the car holding you back. That's my advice anyway. Cheers!

Pat

[weidnerpaul]

Adam Ansorage drove my car and drove Pauls Cooper S on the same day at the same course. His time in my car was ten seconds slower than his time in the Cooper S. He is a very good consistant driver.
WRONG!!!

A.A. is a FWD Guru (and we are grasshoppers)
Adam drove the car so well that he beat BOTH EVO's by PAX that day.
Don't compare your skill/car to what he did in the MINI --- I can't drive the MINI like he did and I've been doing it for 1 1/2 years.
Paul

[AQuimby]

You guys are probably wright. When Adam drove the two cars it was before I got my tires and alighnment. I'll just see how things go. BTW I beat Adam A in my own car at the novice school. But he only got one run in it and I got five.:D

Adam Q

[StevenMosley]

I say if you don't like the car sell it, but don't do it just for autocrossing.

You can find plenty of cheap fun cars that can do double duty. If you
like ford's. You should be able to find a nice 91 or newer Escort GT
for cheap. Or look for a 93-95 Probe GT. Otherwise VW's and Honda's
make good choices.

My favorites are:
88-91 CRX Si
88-91 Civic Si
91-94 Sentra SER
85-91 VW GTI

Rex Jr has a nicely setup GTI that would be a lot of fun for sale on this board.

[Darryl]

Adam,

SEAT TIME!

Young guns!:p

Keep working with Adam, what a great teacher.

By the way, when Adam started he didn't have a Adam! Consider yourself lucky, remember, wax on, wax off :D

Keep using the MAC message board to get insight from others like Steve, Steve, Pat, Harry, Mini M and others, they are what's great about this club!!!!


Darryl

[pinhead]

Hey Adam - there's no reason you can't keep learning on your probe. heck, look what I was driving for the last few years (the stupid 4 door civic). I'd save your pennies, and buy something kick-@$$ for next year.

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by pinhead
Hey Adam - there's no reason you can't keep learning on your probe. heck, look what I was driving for the last few years (the stupid 4 door civic). I'd save your pennies, and buy something kick-@$$ for next year.

Yeah, look what happened to Homer, err I mean Roger - he's goes out & buys a pretty new Mini - and gets slower!:p

-Steve

[pinhead]

Originally posted by MNbiker

he's goes out & buys a pretty new Mini - and gets slower!:p



Ya, don't let that happen to you, Adam :dancin: :flame:

[aansorge]

Having driven his Probe twice now and having driven many GS cars (CRXsi, SER, ACR neon, Celica GT, Acura Integra, VW's, Mini Cooper S, preludes and more) I can honestly say that this car in no way belongs in GS. It is fairly slow, has 5.5 inch rims, and isn't particularily light. On top of this, Adam's is an auto with a jump between 1st and 2nd gear that brings the powerglide to mind. I know that mx-6's used to be THE car in HS, but that was a while ago and this is GS.

His car improved immensily when he replaced the Douglas's with Azenis, but it is still very easy to drive and offers a small envelope. Not a bad car for a few autocrosses, but with his skills, he'll be bored by mid July. Chris B., you ready to sell the RT? How about a co-drive with Adam to wet his appetite?

[Darryl]

Adam,

RT, just do it.

Darryl

[AQuimby]

I was thinking of waiting and saving my pennies for an FS car mabey a Camaro. That would be very cool.:D


Adam Q

[phile]

Originally posted by AQuimby


I was thinking of waiting and saving my pennies for an FS car mabey a Camaro. That would be very cool.:D


Adam Q

You better save dimes, too. Tires are a considerable expense in ponycars. They cost more and disappear faster than those on lighter cars.

[pinhead]

Originally posted by phile

Tires are a considerable expense in ponycars. They cost more and disappear faster than those on lighter cars.



It's worth it, though :dancin:

Actually, one of my friends back in MI drives a SS Corvette, and his Hoosiers are cheaper than his street tires! Not to say that either the street or "race" tires are cheap by Honda Civic or Mini Cooper standards, though ;)

[weidnerpaul]

Not to say that either the street or "race" tires are cheap by Honda Civic or Mini Cooper standards, though

The Cooper "S" without a LSD can go thru the rubber too, especially if you get pyssed or suffer from "red mist" and floor it too soon coming out of a corner. I'm starting on my fourth set of tyres in 2 years, run flats, Dunlop SP9000, Eagle FI GSD3, Dunlop SP9000 (two were still good from B4, only needed 2). Of course lots of runs, myself and sharing the car with others...
It don't have to be a Muscle car to go thru the rubber.
Paul