Advice for AX daily driver 02 VW GTI

[stick]

A buddy and I want to start autocrossing. We plan to buy a car this fall/winter.
But for now... He has a 2002 GTI 1.8t totally stock
We're looking for advice on what we NEED to do to get his car ready.
One of the front calipers are not working correctly. (just the inside pad is grabbing)
So we have to look at that ASAP
It has the 17in wheels w/ 225/45-17 tires. Not sure what kind but nothing special.
Is is a good idea to just use the stock wheels and tires?
Anyone have 17in tires they want to sell?
He needs new pads on the front... any recommendations on type?
I know the car has a lot of body roll. Is a larger front sway bar a must on this car?
Also, how do people mount their video cameras in their cars?

Any help/advice we can get will be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Brent Carlson

[MNbiker]

You have a few choices:

STS - You can run this class with the car as currently set up, wth the 225/45-17 wheels/tires. This class gives you the freedom to make some suspension changes (anti-swaybars, springs, dampers) and mild performance enhancements (intake, exhaust). This would be my first choice of where to run the car, as it's a Street Tire class, would require no initial mods, is a good fit for your car, and always has a good number of participants at events.

G Stock - You'd need to use the stock wheels. You could add a front anti-sway bar & stiffer dampers to help a bit with the body roll, but that's it for mods. R-compund tires are allowed, so that's by far the greatest performance-enhancing mod available.

Street Tire Index - You'd need to use the stock wheels & street tires. You could add a front anti-sway bar & stiffer dampers to help a bit with the body roll, but that's it for mods. This is a huge class - if you like running with LOTS of people, this is a good place to be.

-Steve

[pinhead]

Those wheels might be legal for GS ... VW has had a plethora of factory installed wheel options for the GTI's recently.

By the way, go to the VWVortex and try to get Juergen Gemnich, aka 'TechEd', to give you some advice in the autocross forum. I know him from back in Michigan, and he runs a 1.8t GTI on street tires. He's very fast. He's been autocrossing for like 20 years, and works for VW, too.

[stick]

MNbiker - I think the GS class will be the best fit for us. We want to get going quick and don't want to start out with a lot of mods.
The tires and wheels are stock. One of the options was for larger wheel/tire package.
17in 225 by 45 tires.

pinhead - we'll be sure to check out that site.

We will buy a car just for auto and rally cross this fall or winter. So we don't want to do too much with his daily driver. We just want to get seat time in to give us a better idea of what to do for the future car.

[Blue03CivicSi]

I was under the impression that the wheels were a dealer installed option, and that dealer installed options are not allowed in GS.

Anything available on the exact model and year of your car as standard or optional equipment, as installed on the factory assembly line (nothing available only dealer-installed is allowed)

GTI's have 16"x6.5" wheels standard I believe.

[stick]

Originally posted by Blue03CivicSiI was under the impression that the wheels were a dealer installed option, and that dealer installed options are not allowed in GS.

Anything available on the exact model and year of your car as standard or optional equipment, as installed on the factory assembly line (nothing available only dealer-installed is allowed)

GTI's have 16"x6.5" wheels standard I believe.

Good catch. Yes the standard for the GTI are the 16" x 6.5"

I'll check if the optional tire/wheel combo were dealer installed or not.
Anyone know this off hand?

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by Blue03CivicSi
I was under the impression that the wheels were a dealer installed option, and that dealer installed options are not allowed in GS.

Anything available on the exact model and year of your car as standard or optional equipment, as installed on the factory assembly line (nothing available only dealer-installed is allowed)

GTI's have 16"x6.5" wheels standard I believe.

Subaru WRX's (and several other makes) have a similar issue - if the optional wheels/tires are installed by the dealer, they are not considered "Stock". If they're installed at the factory (or Port, in the case of many imports), then the options are considered stock. In the case of Subaru, some options are port-installed, and are therefore Stock-legal. Unfortunately, the wider 17" wheels/tires are dealer-installed. In the case of VW, I'm not sure how they handle such options. You'll likely need to hit a VW-specific board for some answers.

-Steve

[SalahK]

.

[SalahK]

Since you have never autocrossed before I'll make the brave assumption that your current driving skills are just average and that you want to autocross in order to become a better driver and to have a lot of fun in the process. If this is the case then I would recommend doing NOTHING more than fixing the caliper and showing up at the next event. There are plenty of guys (both fast and slow) who compete in cars that are bone stock.

The reason I don't advise beginners to mod their cars is because softly sprung cars on street tires, although slower in terms of laptimes, are very progressive at the limit of adhesion. The breakaway tends to be gradual and with lots of warning. These are exactly the kind of driving characteristics the will catapult your learning curve. Once you able to extract at least 80% of your cars potential, then I would recommend making some changes.

Bottom line:
If one of the fast drivers at MAC can get into YOUR car and beat your time by 5% (2 seconds on a typical 40 second course) then you probably ought to spend the extra cash on driver improvement (more events & driving schools) rather than on modding the car.

Whichever way you decide to go, welcome to a great club! :)

[stick]

I just called Countryside VW, and just asked them if the 17" wheels are factory or dealer installed. He said that they were installed by the factory.
I looked on the VW website and couldn't find anything on it.

So, we will fix the caliper and put new pads on and run it as it is. Then go from there.

Thanks for the help.

[Strider]

Welcome to another dubber in autoX!!!

[stick]

Originally posted by StriderWelcome to another dubber in autoX!!!

Thanks...The car belongs to Mike Vanvleet.:)

[pinhead]

I'm a former dubber in autocross :dancin:

http://www.msu.edu/~boothrog/gtistuff/dso.jpg

[phile]

Originally posted by stick


I just called Countryside VW, and just asked them if the 17" wheels are factory or dealer installed. He said that they were installed by the factory.
I looked on the VW website and couldn't find anything on it.

So, we will fix the caliper and put new pads on and run it as it is. Then go from there.

Thanks for the help.

As far as the class goes: New driver? Enter SI class and don't worry about classes at all. If you are the rare person who "gets" autocross right away, you will win SI and be thereafter banned from the class. More likely, you can have fun in SI and learn until you do win the class. And in SI, you could legally run any size wheel that fits and doesn't look dangerous to the eventmaster.

About the legality of the wheels in Stock: Do the dealer folks have any factory order forms showing the 17-inch tire as an option? What makes a part a factory option is not the location of the car when the part is installed. There was a time (maybe still) when EVERY Honda came into the USA without air conditioning. It was always installed at the dealer. But it was always done with factory parts according to factory directives, and in response to a factory-authorized automobile order form.

Another example: The Pinninfarina Turbo cars (really a FIAT 124) were sold as whole cars in the USA. The turbo was not even an option, but standard equipment for the model. None of these turbos were installed at the factory. The were put in at a center in New York, I believe. Was the turbo a legal, Stock, item? Of course!

The test is ( or ought to be :) ): When this car was new, could you walk into any dealer in the USA and order the car that way on a factory-authorized order form. If some dealers had the parts and would put it on for you, but others would not, it's not a factory item. If all the dealers have the parts and will put it on for you, but it can't be ordered with the car on one factory-authorized form, it is not a factory item.

Here is the rule that makes this possible. It comes from the Solo2 book:

12.4 STANDARD PART
An item of standard or optional equipment that could have been
ordered with the car, installed on the factory production line, and
delivered through a dealer in the United States. Dealer-installed
options or deletions (except as required by factory directives), no
matter how common or what their origin, are not included in this
definition. This definition does not allow the updating or backdating of
parts.

The dealer-installed air-conditioning on the Honda is stock because it is "required by factory directives". If a factory order form for a car at the time your car was ordered included 17" wheels as an option for your model car, they are considered "standard parts". If the order form says you have to have an automatic transmission and power windows to order the 17" wheels, you need to have an automatic transmission and power windows to run the 17" wheels in Stock. The whole car must be the way you could factory-order it.

If they were "standard parts" for a different VW and happen to fit, that is not good enough. If they were consided a bolt-on accessory from the dealers parts department, that is not good enough.

This is of course my opinion, and my opinion won't be worth anything in the protest meeting at the Solo2 Nationals.

[pinhead]

These days, the Germans, for whatever reason, tend to have multiple factory installed wheel sizes available, unlike the Japanese. For example, my Mini can use 2 different wheel sizes in stock with no restrictions - they are a standalone factory installed option.

So anyhow, stick should verify it (which it sounds like he already has), but it would not suprise me in the least if the 17's were indeed a factory installed wheel.

[fitz]

Originally posted by stick


I just called Countryside VW, and just asked them if the 17" wheels are factory or dealer installed. He said that they were installed by the factory.
I looked on the VW website and couldn't find anything on it.

So, we will fix the caliper and put new pads on and run it as it is. Then go from there.

Thanks for the help.

I can confirm absolutely that a 17x7-inch wheel with 225/45R17 tires was a factory option for the 2002 VW GTi 1.8T and Jetta GLS so your fine there.

[stick]

Originally posted by phile
As far as the class goes: New driver? Enter SI class and don't worry about classes at all. If you are the rare person who "gets" autocross right away, you will win SI and be thereafter banned from the class. More likely, you can have fun in SI and learn until you do win the class. And in SI, you could legally run any size wheel that fits and doesn't look dangerous to the eventmaster.
Sweet... both of us have never competed in a auto x yet. eccept the two mazda rev-it-up events. It will be fun to see the way it REALLY works:)

fitz: thanks, I will get the papers from a dealer showing the wheels are a factory installed item when I get a chance. Not a rush since we can go as SI class.

Now, we just have to make it to an event:dancin:
So, the next event is June 6th MOWOG event #3?
I'll see you there, or event #4 since we close on our house on the 8th :drink:
Thanks for the help everyone :beer: