4 point seat belt mounting questions...

[shane86]

Ok. i have a 94 saturn with the annoying automatic seat belts. they offer NO real restraint short of a accident or when it latches while I'm on the brakes.

So I'm thinking about temporarily installing a 4 point seat belt in the driver's seat. so i am thinking of using the existing "LATCH" mount point on the rear deck of my car. and then mounting an additional set of eyebolts through the floor boards around the base of the seat (a proper mount location of course) then adding some climbing grade carabiniere to the harness so i can quickly install and remove it without using any tools.

So would this be legit? would it pass tech? at an SCCA event?

I thought about this a little before this saturday, and when i went back and reviewed the footage from my camera that i had in the car, I'm flopping around like fish out of water. :sarc

[Blue03CivicSi]

http://www.soloperformance.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=36

This might help with your installation questions.

[73GT]

Shane
MAC and SCCA will not allow you to use Climbing clamps due to insurance issues.
Go with the Schoth belts as Blue Civic said. They are very popular, legal and being there made in Germany pass TUV which is good thing for your safety.


73GT Chief of Tech

[phile]

>adding some climbing grade carabiniere

You should use the hardware that comes with the racing harnesses. Shop around. You don't need that overpriced Schoth (or however it's spelled) stuff. There is a lot of real racing stuff available.

The racing organizations now have stringent rules about how old the webbing can be. You can buy "outdated" harnesses from racers for reasonable prices.

If I were you, I wouldn't sweat the shoulder harness much. The important thing is to have a *tight* lap belt. I have known of several national-caliber drivers who only use a lap belt. Roger "the famous" Johnson had a full harness in his Corvette to be legal for certain big-track events, but for autocross, even at Nationals, he used the stock Corvette belts which have a solid tightener for only the lap portion.

I have a 1992 Saturn with the mouse belts. The lap belt can be tightened as much as I like, which is a lot. The shoulder belt locks as soon as I start tossing the car around. If I was to autocross my Saturn on a regular basis (I've only actually run it once), I'd use the stock belts. Are you telling me that the 1994 setup is different?

[haro]

Another option may be a CG-Lock. I've been looking into this as a possibility since I no longer have a roll bar and therefore can't use a harness. I've heard it works well. I think I saw it at Soloperformance.com and is less than $40.

(I have a Sabelt 5-point pull-up camlock that is collecting dust............)

[MNbiker]

Shane,

If you want to install a removable harness, use something like this:
http://www.soloracer.com/gforcesnaphook.html


And I agree with Harry - take a look at CG-Lock. It's a relatively cheap way to use what you already have.
http://www.cg-lock.com/home.htm

-Steve

[washburn]

Just unbolt the existing mounting bolts, add the harness mounting tabs on top, and re-bolt. I used to have both seats and a harness in the Neon at the same time.

[phile]

Originally posted by MNbiker


Shane,

If you want to install a removable harness, use something like this:
http://www.soloracer.com/gforcesnaphook.html
http://store3.yimg.com/I/soloracerdotcom_1790_1229204

And I agree with Harry - take a look at CG-Lock. It's a relatively cheap way to use what you already have.
http://www.cg-lock.com/home.htm

-Steve

Again, I don't know for sure what the 1994 Saturn looks like. On the 1992 Saturn, the CG-Lock is not necessary for the lap belt and won't work on the shoulder belt.

[shane86]

The CG Lock won't work in this case because the lap belt and the shoulder belt are separate belts.
i thought about adding mounting points because the stock saturn lap belt and shoulder belt both feed into the center console, making removing it necessary to remove it every-time the belts want to be switched. this is a bit of a pain, because i have the optional center armrest.

[miata#37]

Another option is the Torso Strap that's made by G-Force. It's and adjustable web strap that goes around your seatback and your upper body. It's simple and costs about $15. I use one when I drive the neon. I believe Adam A. used a couple when he had his CRX.
They're pretty effective for what they cost.

[phile]

Originally posted by miata#37


Another option is the Torso Strap that's made by G-Force. It's and adjustable web strap that goes around your seatback and your upper body. It's simple and costs about $15. I use one when I drive the neon. I believe Adam A. used a couple when he had his CRX.
They're pretty effective for what they cost.

Invented by Dick Turner. Called the Turner Belt by some, although others could not resist calling it the Dick Strap.

Remember that it is not legal in open cars without full-height roll bars.

[shane86]

Sorry about the short post last time, i was on my way out the door and just wanted to clear some things up...
I'm thinking about the turner belt. honestly, the thing looks like a luggage strap. so i might just try one of those on quick and see how it works.

phile, yeah, the 92 and 94 seat belt systems are identical. but the one problem i have noticed is that i have the leather seats, and man do i slide on those really well. the other thing, i think i met you, at the MAC AutoX school. it was one of the last runs of the day and i think you rode with me as my instructor. if you are, then if i also rember right, you are a little shorter than me. thus a problem arises. the shoulder belt on me only comes as high as about the upper portion of my arm. and winds up crossing my chest on my left pec. this gives me a lot of room to slide out of the belt.

i also under stand what you are saying about the lap belt being sufficient. and i agree that i could probably live with it and be safe. but i would feel better if i was just held back in my seat more securely, so that i could focus more on driving and my line, and not how I'm going to brace myself. that is why i only really want the harness when i am autoX-ing.

i do like what i saw on the schroth website about mounting. and that gave me a sufficent rear mounting pont, the rear left passenger belt buckle. i may just go to a junkyard, and cut the belt off for the buckle, then use that attached to the race harnes, because scroth doesnt make a quick adapter for my car, but it's basicly what they do.

The Geforce Snap hook looks like a good fix. but the thing is i can't mount them to anyting without ripping half the car apart to do so. when i autox i basicly want to be able to just take things out of my car, snap in the harness and drive up to tech.

So the only idea i have left that needs to be addresed is the mounting points. specificly the ones for the lap belt. like i said, the ones for the existing lap belt is well shrouded in the plastic interior fixtures. and i know that i cant just drill and tap some bolts into the floor, due to the fact that the floor pan is relitively thin metal. what i have hear that you can do though is drill through, tap, then add washers to each side as well as bolts, then weld the washers and bolts all together and then to the floor pan. i think that this would leave, with the proper grade bolts, a very strong mounting point to mount a seat belt. and since it's only the lap belt, the angle is less of a problem.

again could i get away with this? would it pass tech at a MOWOG event? SCCA?

[pinhead]

Shane - I think I've got a - he he - "dick strap" in my autocross box that I never use. I wish I'd have known, I'd have let you try it at All Rite.

[shane86]

bring it to the next AllRight run. i'll be there, and would love to try it!
maybe i could buy it at the end of the day?

[pinhead]

Originally posted by shane86


bring it to the next AllRight run. i'll be there, and would love to try it!
maybe i could buy it at the end of the day?

No Problem!

[73GT]

Roger
If he doesn't I will!



73GT