AARRF lapping event review

[ryan j]

First of all, I believe AARRF owes anyone who participated in this "event" a huge apology and a refund or some kind of credit towards a future event should somone decide to attend anymore of them.

I just returned from the most unorganized and frustrating event I have ever been to. This is the first time that I didn't have fun at an auto event. To think that they charged $45 for that is absolutely absurd. Add to that the fact that I left work 2 hours early to get there on time and it brings the total cost to $100. So, to the lady that had the nerve to ask me to pay their ridiculus fines (mostly subjective calls), you can subtract your $5 a tire and send me a check for the rest.

To those of you that enjoyed the event, why ? track time? Sitting around for five hours for 4 laps around that course is track time to you?

[ryan j]

I had thoughts of driving an AARRF drift event, but after the attitude of some people tonight about the speeds, I wonder if they'll get pissed if I go sideways too much.

[HandCommand]

Ok, I'll chime in here speaking from both a staff worker and driver. I got there early to help get cars TECHED in. The turnout was overwhelming.

Yes, I agree the begining was horrible. I got there about 4PM and the first car didnt get on the track until 6:30PM. For those who may of noticed, I was running around like a chicken with its head cut off trying to get people teched in so we can get on the track.

I, along with 2 or 3 other TECH workers had our hands tied, because we couldnt complete the tech until the driver registered and got their tech sheet. Many new comers just pulled their cars in line and had no clue to go to the registration table first. I know its not their fault. I think AARRF should once in awhile announce to the crowd what to do. I know I tried my best. My voice is now horse. Give me that BULL HORN!

I know AARRF doesnt have any problem getting helpers and workers, but I believe we need more Tech and Registration personnel in the begining to get the ball rolling. We need more workers to be able to do multi-tasks. For instance, I recruit people to come to the event, I help tech in their cars, I take newbies in my car and do check rides, I work the track corners, and I give spectators rides in my car so they can experience road racing first hand.

This event was really busy. At the driver's meeting when asked how many were 1st timers, many raised their hands. Things will take longer with more newbies. Heck, I brought a few drivers that never did anything other than 1/4 mile RockFalls Dragstrip racing. The newbies will eventually catch on and things will become smoother as they get the hang of it.

I heard a couple of people getting irrate about not getting on the track right away and as a driver I understand. But on the flip side, now that I have been a staff worker also you must understand that we must take into account all the other drivers and newbies, not just you.

I admit, things were a little hectic and unorganized at first, but as the night got rolling, things fell into place. AARRF did run a bit longer into the night to compensate somewhat, but we did miss out on daylight.

I was one of the first group to go out on the track to give check rides to newbies, and I did see that the track had DEBRIS from the get go. The car club before AARRF came never cleaned up their mess!!!!!!

All in all, I had a good, exhausting time. I dont take sides because I am both a driver and helper. I try to state both sides of the coin whether it be good or bad.

I think MUCH TIME is wasted between run groups. The track just sits there being unused! The transition could be much smoother. That all adds up in the end!

For those of you who have met me or seen me, Im sure you will see that I do my best to get people started and enjoy the event. If you ask the MAC staff, they will recall that I always volunteered my duties and stayed after to pick up cones at the MAC events. I am also always the one that will have a fist full of dollar bills to do the BUCK runs. That's when I take people who have never experienced lateral forces and at the same time enjoy some track time with $$$ going to the club.

Without MAC, COM, AARRF, etc. there would be no organized events for me to enjoy what I love doing, Im sure many others feel the same.

Feel free to express your opinions to those who attended the event. I'm not an "OFFICIAL" AARRF staff. I'm a member that loves this sport and helps out when I can.

[HandCommand]

Originally posted by ryan j


I had thoughts of driving an AARRF drift event, but after the attitude of some people tonight about the speeds, I wonder if they'll get pissed if I go sideways too much.


Ryan,

AARRF has both drift and road course events going on simutaneously. They dont want you to get your tail happy on the road course. The drift and road circuit are on two different sections of the facility.

[pinhead]

I was sorta irked that I spent $45 for two run sessions (and keep in mind, I drove from Rochester), and that I got yelled at before I had even been on the track :sarc But besides that, it was pretty fun. If doing two run sessions for $45 was par for AARRF's proverbial course, I wouldn't go back, but I don't think last night was typical for them.

I got to ride in that red E30 BMW :D That thing was awesome. Talk about FAST! Well, as a Mini driver, my standard for "fast" might be a little skewed, but I think anyone would have enjoyed that ride.

I really, really like that course. As someone who's an autocrosser first, and a "track guy" a distant, distant, distant second, I liked this course because it had plenty of run off, was wide, and had a LOT of turns and elevation changes :dancin: The slalom was a lot of fun, and so was that sorta blind left hander over the top of the hill followed by the quick right-left...

Honestly, the lack of seat time wasn't too cool, but ish happens. I'll happily try another AARRF event at DCTC. That course is a hoot :dancin: Even in a 115HP girly car :flame:

BTW - Ed was there in his brother's 911! Lee F and Barry S were both flying as usual.

[pinhead]

Originally posted by HandCommand


Many new comers just pulled their cars in line and had no clue to go to the registration table first. I know its not their fault.


Actually, FOR SURE it's not their (our) fault, because that's what we were told to do after that parade lap. It didn't make sense to me, but I didn't see any need to make waves so I just did as I was instructed.

I think there was a case of "too many cooks" last night.


But anyhow, despite it all, I had fun, and I'll be back :)

[phile]

>The car club before AARRF came never cleaned up their mess!

Who dat?

Anyone who knows, send me email if you don't want to say in public.

[Jon Kotek]

This sounds alot like MAC last year. We had a few events that did not go as smoothly as we would have liked, and a few people were very pissy about it. Over this winter we had decided that we needed to get our **** together and make things move alot smoother, I think we have done much better by leaps and bounds.

I wasn't there but I can guess they have the same problems as we have had in the past.

Jon

[StevenMosley]

Pinhead,

You are right that place is a dream. We used to use Dakota for all of our events until someone took over and said that anything with timing is racing and is not allowed. I guess those people don't look at the safety records of track vs autox events. I'm sure the statistical numbers are greatly in our favor. I know I would rather be giving the site money to the government office that owns Dakota then a private party like Valley Fair or All Right Parking, but I guess they already get enough tax money.

:beer: :argue: :alc:

[kit]

i was there watching... i got bored due to the long course turn around... too many cars too little course. I ran with AARRF during its early days. It's nowhere this hectic probably because there's really a reasonable number of cars. Perhaps AARRF should control the number of sign-ups.

[pinhead]

Originally posted by StevenMosley

We used to use Dakota for all of our events until someone took over and said that anything with timing is racing and is not allowed

Ahhh, I wondered what "the deal" was...

[73GT]

Jon It was deja vu all over again. They need to do what Mac did and then post the procedures online.

73 GT

[Jon Kotek]

Originally posted by 73GT


Jon It was deja vu all over again. They need to do what Mac did and then post the procedures online.

73 GT

Well I can say turning people away is no the answer that is for sure. Every club needs people to do the work.... That being said burnout can happen too.

Jon

[Mushashi]

I'm a staff with AARRF too, and I was at DCTC at 1pm, waiting for the crew to show up so we could get the course setup. The Cops where their still training on their Pit Moves, and finally left after 4:30pm or so, the AARRF Staff had soo much catching up to do. Find cones, tech cars, registration, I was soo busy trying find cones with another staffs that I never saw just how many drivers showed up til later. For some reason there was no more cones to be found and the other people at DCTC who were at the Truck course and motor cycle course would not let us use any of their cones either, so we had to grab tires and chairs and barrels. Had to find brooms to clean up the COP's mess.

I think that AARRF is pretty generous about letting alot of new drivers in their events on sort notice, and they try not to discourge drivers from coming to our events by letting as many drivers in as possible. I remember Barb refusing one guy, he was there pretty late, and had drove from Hamline, WI, I felt bad, but what can you do.

We had planned on running a bit later into the night, and later found that the power box that has the switch was locked, staff had made efforts to get the box unlocked but did not have any success. Some of us corner workers even turned on our cars headlight to keep the drivers safe on the track.

The transition of run groups are a problem when the previous run group fails to exit after the checker flag has been deployed causing loss of track time, and they get talked too. AARRF has a staff at every possible check point to try and make the event go as smooth as possible. The Start person is at the Top of that hill and communicates with everyone on the track from corner to corner to paddock to CON.

I would encourge drivers to pre-register, Barb at Registration pulled everyone inline who pre-reg to the front of the line.

I personally think that Tony has one of the best sportmanship attitude around, he is always willing to helpout as a staff and as a driver, especially looking out for new drivers or just people who maybe interested.

I enjoy working with AARRF and MAC and participating in their events, I dont like to go around complaining about how events dont workout as I'd expected, everyone going to these events for a reason, and if I can't race that day, there will be another, and I can alway catch a ride with my friends at anyone of these events, and if your new, most of the drivers are more than welcome to give you the ride of your life, at least thats how I got started.

Dont be discouraged from coming to these events. It not often that you get to go around the track for 10-15min run groups in the evening or day and use a full tank of gas.

C:D

[1/2mv^2]

Originally posted by Mushashi

The transition of run groups are a problem when the previous run group fails to exit after the checker flag has been deployed causing loss of track time, and they get talked too.

If you wanted people to exit immediately on the checkered flag, perhaps AARRF should have said THAT instead of what they said at the driver's meeting, which was, "after you see the checkered flag, you then have a cooldown lap."

[Mushashi]

Originally posted by 1/2mv^2


Originally posted by Mushashi

The transition of run groups are a problem when the previous run group fails to exit after the checker flag has been deployed causing loss of track time, and they get talked too.

If you wanted people to exit immediately on the checkered flag, perhaps AARRF should have said THAT instead of what they said at the driver's meeting, which was, "after you see the checkered flag, you then have a cooldown lap."


Drivers do have one lap after the Checker is deployed; its when driver fail to come into the paddock after the cool down lap is what I'm referring to.

C

Side note: I have not had this much fun for a long time.

[MattD]

This might be off topic a little, but what exactly is it that AARRF does at their events? ...never been to one myself.

If it's at DCTC, then it's not timed. Is it just kinda drivin' around the track for a while, and then switching run groups? And if there is no timing, I'm assuming cones are just used for showing the correct course to drive on? What do course workers do then?

Just curious, I guess. Haven't had enough free time to consider participating at any non-competitive events recently...

MattD

[pinhead]

Matt - ya, you are basically just driving around the track for fun. The cones (or other various objects as mushashi was talking about) block off alternate paths around the course.

The corner workers are basically there to flag the drivers. If a car goes off or something, then they pull out yellow or red flags or something to tell everyone to slow down or stop. If you do something bad, they'll give you a black flag, if you need to pull over (or off the course as it was the other night) to let someone pass, they have a flag for that, etc.

It was really pretty fun, despite the disorganization. The course at DCTC is awesome.

[Blue03CivicSi]

Do you get fined for every wheel off the track?

[intendedaccel]

Having been to both a MAC and AARRF event myself, I feel I can speak my opinion about this.

I will NEVER go to a AARRF event again (note that the event I went to was about a couple years ago). Completely disorganized to the point of being unsafe. They should be used as an example of what NOT to do to run an event.

The MAC event I just attended was PERFECTLY organized, and that is a big reason why I will attend again! Bravo MAC!

[G60Jetta2dr]

Hi,

I was in charge of the event on the 24th. I see a lot of emotion and frustration in some of these post. I sincerely regret that some people did not have a good time. Most did.

If you did not have fun, feel free to contact me personally and we can see what happened and what can be done. I will not work these things out over a forum as it is not condusive to good communication.

I can be reached at Mk2jetta2dr@yahoo.com. Or click my information on this forum or the AARRF.com forum. Or call me at 612-309-0401. My information is posted on AARRF.com. I'm very accessable.

Events have there ups and downs. This event had some challenges and I would like to thank my staff for a terrific job. I would also like to thank the drivers for being great sportsman and having a good attitude at the track for the most part.

AARRF is about having fun and I do my best to facilitate that.

Llew.
AARRF Competition Director.

[jungle]

those of you who are complaining need to re evaluate what actually happened....

-track full of gravel from cop training, which requires staff to find brooms and clean up by hand...DCTC failed to have the track cleaned for AARRF
--------------hmmm MAC has issues with this too(every st. cloud event)

-traffic sucked, causing the registration staff where late

-there were about 3 to newbies to every expirence person
--------------hmmm MAC has issues with this too

-80% of the people who showed up did not preregister
--------------hmmm MAC has issues with this too

-some of the staff had never worked an event before, so that slows things down
--------------hmmm MAC has issues with this too

I got about 3.5 runs in, AND i was helping staff...so that is about 30 minutes of track time....hmmm...i am a club member and preregistered that means i paid like $35, that brings my $ per minute time down to around $1 per minute....and that doesn't include the parade laps. My friend who was a noobie got 3 runs in. I don't want to turn this into a MAC vs AARRF thing but MAC will never get down below $5 per minute of seat time. MAC is extremly orgainized, however because of that MAC has a reputation of being run by anal old bastages (not my words!!!), but on the flip side it also suffers from lack of organization (look at how long change overs take).

ryanj: "four laps"? ehhhh what are you talking about? each of the sessions i was out there was atleast 7 laps per session.

when is the last time MAC refunded $ for not getting enough seat time in? Also if memory serves, the last car off of the track at 9:45! AARRF was susposed to be off the track by 9:00. So AARRF stook it's neck out to help make more track time up to the drivers.

btw....MAC offers DNF for people who put tires off, AARRF offers financial disencentive to those who put tires off. These two approaches help keep people on the pavement, and under control. I my self dropped a number of tires off at DCTC, I didn't feel any of them....but w/ that coarse and that lay out, clipping an apex is to be expected.

btw...the track rules are any car that goes spinning over 45degrees is considered a spin, you will be talked to and penalized. AARRF's main circut is not for drifting...the drift pad is for drifting.

I do hope that the future AARRF events will run smoother, I also hope the same for MAC, I also plan on attending both events and doing what I can to help them.

grow up, quite your whining, take the entire situation in consideration, and be part of the solution...that goes for everything...not just AARRF, Auto-X, but politics, and life in general. This club has SOME the biggest bunch of whinners i have ever seen!!!! well, Volksport has a bunch of big whiney babies to....but I still support that group to!

[pinhead]

Originally posted by jungle

-80% of the people who showed up did not preregister
--------------hmmm MAC has issues with this too



I would have happily preregistered, but the prereg link goes straight to paypal, and I don't use paypal. myautoevents.com is free and cool :dancin:


This club has the biggest bunch of whinners i have ever seen!!!!


whinner = winner? Sweet I'm a winner!!! :dancin: I think you meant whiner.

Anyhow, I think AARRF did the best the could have given the circumstances, and I'll be back. It was fun.

[StevenMosley]

Originally posted by jungle

grow up, quite your whining, take the entire situation in consideration, and be part of the solution...that goes for everything...not just AARRF, Auto-X, but politics, and life in general. This club has SOME the biggest bunch of whinners i have ever seen!!!! well, Volksport has a bunch of big whiney babies to....but I still support that group to!


That kind of sounds like whining. :)

This is a good place to vent and express opinions. We have that right since we are in America. So let the whining or bitching begin. I'm sure Llew is reading and formulating a plan to increase satisfaction in the future. I'm sure the feedback helps.

[73GT]

This isn't the correct place for this thread, it belongs on the aarrf board. Ryan J has never participated at a MAC event. I think he deosn't know the web address for aarrf. His veiws are not MAC's I talked to all the MAC members at the event and I didn't hear any of the whinning that people from MAC are being accussed of. I posted on the the aarrf message board where this belongs about my thoughts on the event. I offer to give aarrf any help they need to get their events to run smooth when it comes to setting up proceedures.

Aaron who's the anal old *******?


Lee F
73 GT

[pinhead]

I see both sides, I guess. I don't think that a newbie should be so intimidated that they're afraid to voice any concerns. . . and I think it's reasonable to complain if you're unhappy with something, but on the other hand, saying that AARRF sucks and that you want a refund is a lot different than saying, "I was dissappointed with the organization of the event" or whatever.

[ryan j]

First of all, I'm not a MAC member, nor have I ever participated in a MAC event. I'm not really sure what MAC does, but if that's the club that puts on the normal autocrosses, then I think that AARRF should use them as a model for organization. I've observed a few autocrosses, and the organzition of the estimated 70 cars racing looked very smooth, unlike the chaos that was last Thursday. Instead of whining about it, here are my suggestions-

1. Stay on time and stick to the schedule. I think one of the things that irritated me the most was that I left work early only to stand around for 3 hours waiting for something to happen. The schedule said 4:30- 9pm, to me that means be ready to race at 4:15 at the latest.
Understand that there will be late entries, especiallly on a workday, and fit them in as they arrive.
Also, I was told it was $30, then it changed to $40. I get there and the lady askes for $45. Where did the extra $15 come from?


2. Registration and Tech as soon as the car is ready- Have people set up so that as soon as people have their cars ready to go, they can get all the paperwork done with.

3. If you don't want people to hit the dirt in the corners, put something there. I saw some 55 gal. drums out there, put them on the corners and watch how many people cut the corners then. Blaming all the dirt on the cops is ridiculus. Almost every car in every session would kick up some dirt, some (sorry, it's what i normally do) more than others.

-edited for typos

[Chin]

Okay, I was going to resist replying to this, but I must. Being that I have been running with MAC for 4 years and AARRF for 3, I can say that what happened last Thursday has happened at events from both clubs before, as well as others, and I am sure it will happen again. With that being said, only so much can be done. Here are my views...

There are some "less than admirable" attitudes that both clubs exhibit, but that is a individual thing, not a club issue. I have had my run-ins with both MAC and AARRF when it comes to being unhappy with things. I did feel that certain, unnamed, people carry a little extra attitude, but we must also realize that the added stress of an event can highlight that. Attitudes aside, I was disappointed that Thursday did not run smoother, as well, but I understand why it happened and can accept that. With that many cars and newbies, things are going to go wrong, one issue is that, like MAC, they depend on volunteers and they are not always completely qualified. If Llew, Charlie, and Barb had a more experienced pool to pick from, many of their jobs could be offloaded. For instance, Barb was the only one doing registration and waiver signatures. I am not clear on the leagality, but if a trusted volunteer could have been in charge of getting the waiver signed, it would have aleviated the registration sign-up line (much of the problem in my eyes). Also, if Llew would have had another experienced hand, maybe some of the coordination out on the track could have been improved. I think AARRF recognizes that they need a better, documented, procedure, but let's just hope that gets into place soon. As for the $, if you don't like the rules, don't run. I think having a penalty for tires off or spins is a good idea (spoken from someone that had a $15 spin) as it is a deterrent. For those of you that cannot control your enthusiam on the track, you will pay for it. I personally don't want a 55 gallon drum on the inside of a corner in case something does realy go wrong (I am thinking of a tire blow out or similar) and now I have a huge repair bill because someone thought it was necessary to "scare" some people away from the apex. Also, I don't know where anyone got that it was $30, unless you are a member and pre-registered, it has been that way for a while.

Well, I could go on for quite a while, but I will save everyone their sanity as it will only resort to pointing fingers and name calling ;) Bottom line... they are quite reasonable and if you show up and decide not to drive because of the fines or the amount of time spent waiting see Barb and I am sure she will refund you.

Christian
-Not affiliated with AARRF (other than being a memeber)

[Dennis G.]

Just out of curiosity, how do they collect $15 after the fact? Or when a dumb kid says "I aint got it"...?

[Jon Kotek]

Yup it is hard to run a club.

I have never been to an AARRF event, (mostly because I have a miata without a harddog) but I would assume they would have the same problems that we have had.

Last year MAC had some badly run events that made us decide last winter (as board members) to totally revamp how our events are run. I think we had ALOT of input and ALOT of help to get this done and I think now we run a very tight ship. Now saying that some people might think we come off as anal *******s (I know I am one, you can hear me bitching a mile away in the timing trailer) but I want things to run smooth which means more runs which means more fun per dollar.

Jon

[HandCommand]

I believe Chin made some good points. I think Barb could have used some help at Registration, I offered to help, but I had to get cars teched in and newbies checked off.

The FINE system I believe is fair. It does keep people from getting too wild. I myself, have paid some fines when I push my car really hard. To me, that's a bargain to be able to drive aggressively in a controlled evironment, than to be fined on the street by the police:) . Plus, the extra $$$ goes to the club, which will in turn help the club get T-shirts, stickers, BBQ's, etc.

I've run with MAC, Miata Club, COM, AARRF, etc. before. I plan on attending VSCR Vintage Club in St.Cloud in July. It takes alot of time and effort to run an event smoothly. I think if you have never helped out or worked an event before, it will be hard to understand what's involved to make things happen.

How do I know? Because I used to get impatient about being able to get on the track as a driver. That's BEFORE I had a chance to work as staff.

Yes, that last AARRF event could have run smoother. Every dog will have its day. AARRF had alot of newbies that day and many drivers DID NOT Pre-Register.

AARRF does have great seat time per $$$ spent. I dont mind paying $ 60-75 a day for high speed lapping. The run sessions are just long enough before my tires or brakes start to overheat. I think Im spoiled by the higher speed and longer seat time of the AARRF events compared to other events. Time is important to me, and if I could get at least 3 ten minute sessions of high speed lapping in a day for $60-75, its all good.

Any seat time is better than none, but as my life gets more hectic, I need to pick a few selected events I can attend.

MAC events are well organized and I have met some great people from there. I still have my MAC and COM trophys on my mantle!!

I'm sure Llew will be making some changes at future AARRF events so things like this wont happen again.