3000 GT versus STi

[aansorge]

So Jim and Steve, since you guys co-drove each others cars at Mowog 5, give us an idea of the feel and difference between these two all-wheel drive, turbo monsters.

[magicsammy]

where to begin...

First, I have to thank Jim for letting me drive his STi and all involved for a really great event, I'm still thinking about it.

I'm the first to admit that I haven't done many car comparisons after performance driving like auto-x, so there is probably a lot I've overlooked.

We drove our own cars first, so we each had a good benchmark to start from.

Seating position in the STi is much better than my car, I am too big for the 3kGT.
You don't really notice it until you autox, then you really feel cramped. A few inches shorter with shorter legs and that would fit me fine. In the STi, you sit higher and have better visibility, much more of an "on top of the action" feel.

Brakes - this was the surprise, compared to the 3kGT, the STi's brakes felt really soft. He only had 13K (I think) on them but that first corner had me "whoa! it won't stop". Jim said the same thing.
Jim later told me to stand on it more and it did feel better after that.

Steering - again in the first corner the STi had me "whoa! it won't turn". After a bit, I realized that the steering response was great, just that I had to turn the wheel a bit more.

Acceleration - the STi had much shorter gears, I had to jump to third once out on the road course, otherwise pretty similar - both these cars will throw you back into your seat.

Handling - well, the 3kGT is too heavy and it shows in the times. both cars handle very well and feel good, the STi is more "nimble".

While I was faster in the STi, the 3kGT still feels really good.

Overall, the STi is much better suited for autox and the 3kGT is a more of a road/track type of car.

My decision? If I had to get a new car tomorrow, STi for sure. But I fell in love with the 3kGT and really like the car. Depending on what happens this fall, I might make a change or just get a new seat for the 3kGT

[JimsWRXSTi]

Adam,
Good question and an interesting thread to start. Monsters' is right but two very different monsters built with two totally different markets and purposes. Those design intentions make all the difference in a specialized sport such as autocross.

I have always been a fan of the 3000GT VR-4 and remember drooling over them at the dealership agast at the price! So I want to thank Steve for letting me drive his baby and experience the VR-4 in an autox medium. I was instantly impressed with the power and especially the brakes. The power built up a little late for autox but I could tell it would be perfect for a road course or open road. The brakes, well they are more monster than the weight of the car, thats for sure. They reminded me of the brakes on Mark Conrad's race prepared vette (blue with white stripes if you know him and his car).

Being a fan of all-wheel drive I thought it worked well on the VR-4 and even allowed me to get the rear-end out a little with some abrubt steering wheel movmement and a little trail braking. I never felt the car push except due to driver error (coming in too fast).

The size and weight of the car were evident and took a bit of extra work and finesse on my part. Interestingly, this was something that you just start to adapt to. Steve pointed out that it is impossible to get a good driving position. So if you see him in his car looking like he is "kicked back" at the wheel it is not his fault. It is the low roof line and the height of the drivers seat that puts the helmet in the roof if you try to get an aggressive driving postion.

The other down side, I felt, was no rev limiter. Especially, driving some one elses car I had to actually take time to look at the rpm's when getting close to the top of 2nd just before the slalom (around 65 mph and 6000 rpm. Redline was 7 grand if I remember so there was plenty more speed in that gear). Also, because of the gearing my best time was when I shifted to first a couple times during the course to gain speed that was lost coming out of corners in second. Though the car always has torque, the (twin) turbo lag was evident at low RPM. Anyway, I could have gotten more out of the car if there was a rev limiter (Steve is probably sorry he let me drive it now hearing all of this!).

In the end I guess the proof is in the pudding (times). The VR-4 came out pretty good with a 75 second or so run and middle of the PAX pack. I felt pretty good about that time and some people standing around the timer gave me the "thumbs up" which made me feel real good! This was my 13th autox so I am sure someone, like you Adam, who is one of the faster drivers could make the VR-4 a real performer.

Okay, having said all of that would I recommend it to someone looking for a car to autocross? No, but if you already have one and are learning the sport it makes you learn to gain speed by learning to drive (the Right line -Phil) and doesn't let you get away with things that smaller cars might.

As for the STi, well you (Adam) rode in it at Waterloo with 4 people on a fun run. I guess it speaks for itself. Maybe I could get a couple seconds closer to your times with some V700's! Wish... hope...

[magicsammy]

Jim,

you are dead on, especially about the driving position.

Having never driven a car with a rev limiter before, I didn't miss it but after driving the STi, I can see why it's nice, particularly if it is not your car. My rev limiter is my ear.

The 3kGT really feels at home on the highway, it just begs for you to downshift and punch it.