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View Full Version : Numbers rules and Phil's ranting again.


phile
10-05-2004, 03:36 PM
For those of you who think that I am pushy about numbers on cars (and I am), check out what the new SCCA rules will be:
===========
A. All vehicles must display numbers and
class letters on both sides, which must be
readable by Timing & Scoring, Course, and
Grid workers at all times.

B. Only one set of numbers and class letters
may be visible while the vehicle is running.

C. Class shall be represented by the uppercase
abbreviated form rather than be spelled
out. Ladies classes shall be indicated by the
letter "L" following the class letters. (Example:
"BSPL" instead of "B Street Prepared Ladies").

D. Numbers and class letters should be
positioned next to each other. All letters and
numbers must be on body panels, not on windows.
All numbers and class letters must use
the same typeface and the same color, and
this color must provide adequate contrast to
the background color (see Appendix F for
examples).

E. Numbers must be a minimum of 8" high
with a 1-1/4" stroke. Class letters must be a
minimum of 4" high with a 3/4" stroke. In all
cases, the height of the class letters must be
between 25% and 75% of the height of the
numbers. Stroke width must be at least 10%
of the height. (See Appendix F.)

F. The "1" on two-driver cars and the "L" on
Ladies class cars are subject to all of the above
requirements with regard to placement, color,
size, and stroke.
============

If you make your numbers to these specs, you will also have numbers which will pass Met Council's somewhat simpler specs.

About contrast: Studies have shown that "color contrast", like blue numbers on a red car, is essentially worthless. You need contrast in the monochromatic reflectance of number and background. The all-time champion is not, as you might assume, fluorescent colors, but is in fact black numbers on white background. A fairly close second place is white numbers on a black background.

Silver, grey or other medium colors on backgrounds or numbers are not optimal. On a car of any color you can't go wrong with a large white piece of magnetic or static-cling material with a black number on it. If you like to swap cars a lot, and all your buddies have steel cars, a set of white magnetic panels with black numbers are going to work for you no matter what color the cars are.

The absolute worst numbers caused by an artistic statement is mirror-vinyl. This stuff has no color of its own. It is whatever color it happens to be reflecting at the moment. Happily, this fad seems to have passed, and I have not seen any of these for some time.

Remember that the goal here is not to make a digit say "look how pretty I am" but to make it scream something like "I am a SEVEN, dammit". Plain, bold, sans-serif fonts are best.

One variance from the SCCA specs that makes sense to me is that I find using a lower-case "t" for street-tire class makes it look a little more logical, for example "GSt" or "BSPt". This is obviously not required, I just think it is a little more clear.

I use the same magnetics on the Triumph and on the Lotus. Of course the Lotus requires a bit of two-sided tape for this. Of you have decent paint (obviously not a factor on my Lotus) you want to make sure you have a good coat of wax on the car before applying tape.

So make the timing folks smile and say "damned good numbers!", not "what's that damned number?". The run you save will be your own.

I realize that we have new folks that show up and don't know the drill. But I think our patience with bad numbers ought to extend only to a person's second or third event. By then you should get your permanent numbers assigned and make up some convenient, visible, numbers. It costs very little to make these things, and you don't have be Leonardo da Vinci.

magicsammy
10-05-2004, 04:49 PM
I agree. Simply put, your numbers are how you are Identifed during an event.

If these are wrong or unreadable, you may not get credit for your times OR your competitor may not get charged for a penalty. We need this for accuracy.

This is my recommendation for next year. As most of the 800's are not that popular, why doesn't MAC reserve 30 numbers and then assign them to people who DO NOT have permanent numbers. Then when the person registers, they get a number and a set of paper numbers we have printed and some tape.

No more excuses - if you own a number, you have a responsibility to be prepared and if you don't, we provide one for you.

I think we should also mark the co-drive cars (MDVR = multiple driver) so the start marshall can verfiy the numbers BEFORE they let them go

what do ya think?

washburn
10-05-2004, 07:31 PM
We had a little system I came up with a couple years back that I still think could work. I printed 8" tall numbers on letter paper. One number per sheet, along with some letters on half sheets. Kept them in an accordian file, a dozen or so copies of each number. These can be sold at Registration for .50 or a dollar each. No cutting out...just tape the entire sheet to your window or car and place the next number next to it. Make use of these numbers mandatory for those without their own.

It's cheap enough that someone new isn't going to get hammered by shelling out a couple bucks for numbers at one or two events. After purchasing a few of these, though, the returning entrant will start thinking about numbers of their own.

All it takes is someone to administer it. Once started, this means running to a copy place and getting copies made to replace the numbers that were used. Otherwise, just have someone be at reg to sell them. Easy.

While Phil's message is the right one, and we need to hound all our members for good numbers, the newbie isn't hearing any of this. They show up and want to check us out. It's very easy to send a newbie away with a bad impression when they have been brow-beat over something they had no idea about. Be prepared to give them an easy way to do what you want, I say. If you want every number to comply to a spec, then have them there ready to hand out.

Anyone volunteering? (I can't due to my distance away, but I will volunteer to create and provide the first batch of copies if someone else steps up to run it.)

magicsammy
10-05-2004, 08:14 PM
I think this is the way to go, just tell them that's how we do things.

I live right by a Kinko's and we could probably run off a ton of numbers and put them in a file. I was going to recommend that we make numbers and classes the first stop in registration as this is what causes the hang-ups during registration under the current system.

DCM
10-06-2004, 08:34 AM
We still have some numbers, and the accordian file.
But, we just get tired of 'babysitting'
DCM:dancin:

magicsammy
10-06-2004, 11:24 AM
well, either we babysit at the front end (registration) or we do it during the event (T&S).

Nearly all the delays in the first heat in T&S at MOWOG 8 were because of number problems - this is really a big issue.

Maybe we should have a Newbie line and range of numbers so we can all identify and instuct them accordingly - I know I was just kinda wandering around for the first couple of events I attended.

MattD
10-06-2004, 01:27 PM
How about we have a link on mnautox.com 'JUST FOR (NEW) PEOPLE' who don't have numbers...there could be a little FAQ about making the numbers outta the magnetic sheets...and those PDF files w/ the SCCA-legal sized numbers would be there too...

OR, people could just pay me $25 and I'd make them a set of magnetic numbers. Feel free to PM me...

washburn
10-07-2004, 06:28 PM
What do you do about people who just show up? Not everyone plans to go, they see us and just show up. Contrary to popular beleif, not everyone is online either. This is an easy babysitting job folks. "Those are helped that help themselves." (Somone famous once possibly said something similar to that.) Form a line here...

magicsammy
10-07-2004, 07:49 PM
Actually, people who just show up are easier.

Here's my idea: :sarc

line 1: Number assignments and car classes - if you already have a permanent number. go to line 2, Otherwise, we will assign one 850 (851 for the next guy, etc) and hand them a set of paper numbers. We can hang a roll of tape people can pull off some to attach the numbers.

line 2: pre-registered: we sign you in, go to line 4 - if not preregistered, go to line 3

line 3: on-site registration: fill out form with personal info, car class and number (car class and number has already been provided in line one)

line 4: Work assignments - then off to Tech


the only snag in this is people who pre-register who do not have permanent numbers as we use the numbers from the pre-reg data in the computer but I'm sure we can figure something out. Change it to yes/no for "do you own numbers" and base it off that.

this way there is no "out" for numbers - tech sees either good magentics or paper numbers taped on. No more tape numbers or I've got 7's and 4's.

This also removes the issue of people using other peoples permanent numbers, since either you own a number or one is assigned. This also gives people more incentive to buy numbers as they will probably run a different number every time otherwise.

This is just my suggestion, as I have worked registration most of the year and these are the kind of issues we faced. Tell me what you think.

SaturnRaycer
10-10-2004, 10:16 PM
Lots of good ideas. I think we've tried them all at least once before.

The biggest problem lies with the fact that people are "funny". They think nothing of dropping $1000 on bling or "gofast" for the car, but they get all pi$$y when we tell them to shell out a buck for numbers from us.

The other "humor" is that I've seen people buy permanent numbers and "buy" paper numbers for each event. If we price the numbers to discourage this behavior, see #1 above.

In all fairness, we've made some great strides, but still have a way to go. Lets bring those ideas to the annual rules meeting in December. Garnjobst, you ready for us?

DCM
10-11-2004, 10:39 AM
Hey, Phil's not ranting!
He's eddicatin'
OK, so he's a curmudgeon.
Izzat spelt rat???
Whad ya' call me? A red-neck codger?
Is this a 'flame war' ?
DCM:flame: :dancin: :flame: :dancin:

I can identify with someone who has lived that line in "Amazing Grace," "Was blind, but now I see," and I like the fact that he's the same man on Saturday night that he is on Sunday morning.
Z. Miller