Did a couple test drives today

[pinhead]

We're hoping to replace our daily driver (and former autocrosser) Civic with something more spacious in the spring or summer. My wife wants a Honda CRV, I want a station wagon of some kind. We need something that our large dog can ride in behind the back seats. So like an Impreza wagon would be out since it doesn't really have room back there for a big ol' dog to sit up and turn around and stuff (he's 90lbs, so think "small horse" more than "dog").

The wife is in Malaysia right now, but I figured I go do some recon today :D I drove an 05 CRV. It is a heck of a nice little vehicle. The thing that really struck me as odd is that the automatic is rated at higher fuel economy than the manual! What the heck is up with that? Would it be stupid to get a manual in a little SUV like that? Anyhow, the CRV seems like it will do what we want, but...



I also drove a very nice used '02 BMW 325 IX wagon. This did nothing but affirm my beleif that if I had enough money, I would drive BMW's and nothing else (well I'd autocross a Ferrari if I had the money, but that's really dreaming ...) What a sublime car. It's way more money than I want to spend, but would I love to drive that thing to work every day. The sound of that motor is perfect. The handling of this station wagon would shame all sorts of performance cars. And our dog could ride in the back.

So I know this is an insanely 'apples to oranges' comparison, but at this point, those are the two main contenders for my money! I wish the BMW was either $5k cheaper or $5k more expensive, then there would be no decision because it'd either be crazy NOT to buy it, or too expensive to consider...

[psundberg]

After looking at all the smaller SUV's and similar cars, we choose the CRV. With exception on one or two non-Hondaish ergonomic things, it's a very nice car. It's much more car for the $$ than the RAV 4, more reliable than the Ford Escape although limited in what it can tow. The CRV was our choice until we move onto something like the MDX.

Phil

[StevenMosley]

Which CRV did you drive? SE? I am in the same boat. Since we had our daughter we have found that the next car has to be either a wagon or small SUV.

The list:
CRV SE (my favorite)
Volvo V50 (hers)
Xterra
Forester

As for the manual in a CRV, don't do it. You will have a hardtime selling it. Also touch base with me when you are ready to selling the Civic.

[pinhead]

I drove an LX-AWD, but I'm not sure what we'd end up buying. I like the heated seats in the SE, but basically the LX has as many goodies as I think we'd need.

I am pretty interested in the Volvo V50, but there isn't a Volvo dealer in Rochester, and we already have a Mini that we need to take to the Cities for service, so I don't want to do that with both of our cars.

The CRV sure is a nice little ride.

I think I might check out the VW wagons. My wife sorta liked the Passat TDI, but it's only available in FWD.

But I dunno. I think I'd rather spend $25k on a used BMW wagon than a new anything else. So we'll see.

So Phil, you sound pretty happy with the CRV? I think Steve G has one, too, right? And if I am remembering right, you spoke pretty highly of it, too.

Steven - I'll look you up as soon as we're more serious about doing something.

[StevenMosley]

I know what you are saying about the LX's options. The wife currently has her loaded Volvo S40 that she has been spoiled by. Since we got the Volvo, she hates VW's. She pretty much only drove Honda's before that and the SE will give her all of the features her S40 has plus AWD, but she still wants the V50.

I really like the V50's and wouldn't miss AWD. Traction Control seems to fit our needs 364 days out of the year. If you get serious about looking at a Volvo. I would recommend Borton in Mpls. http://www.borton.com/ We have had great service there after switching from the other in town Volvo dealer.

As for the used vs new. I'm really leaning towards new because I just don't have time to fix her car and I don't want her to have any surprises well hauling around our 7 week old daughter.

[MNbiker]

Roger,

My wife has an '04 CR-V EX and loves it. It's a very nice vehicle - the quality is typical Honda and it actually handles quite well for what it is. Get the automatic - it has plenty of power, is easier to drive around town and will be easier to re-sell later.

The Forester 2.5 XT would also be a solid choice. It has a great engine, but I like it better with the manual. My wife liked the CR-V's styling better.

-Steve

[phile]

If I spent a ton of money on a new vehicle for my wife and it contained an automatic transmission, I'd have a domestic problem. She only grudgingly accepts the automatic in the Suburban.

[StevenMosley]

Originally posted by phile


If I spent a ton of money on a new vehicle for my wife and it contained an automatic transmission, I'd have a domestic problem. She only grudgingly accepts the automatic in the Suburban.



You are a lucky man. My wife will not drive a manual again after having her Jetta. She doesn't even want my daily driver to be a stick since she might have to drive it from time to time. So now we have a 01 VW Golf GLS 1.8T with an auto that neither of us care for.

[pinhead]

My wife prefers manual trannys, but I think it's probably because she's never really driven an auto. I suspect that if we get an auto, she'll get used to it.

I sure liked the BMW :D I could haul some grocerys in that bad boy!!!

[aansorge]

The 325 wagon really doesn't have that much room back there. It may work for you but look closely and don't let the wonderful driving attributes cloud your mind from all the needs the vehicle must meet. I love 3 series BMW's, but they don't have a ton of room.
Alternatives are the Passat wagon and the Mazda 6 Wagon, both are available with manuals and both very nice driving vehicles with slightly more room. The Passat is not available with the manual/diesel option (silly). The Mazda 6 is slightly sportier, but both are capable.
Of course the Legacy wagon is available too and would blow the doors off of all the above. Salah owns one and enjoys it.

If you both want a manual tranny, get a manual tranny. The car will sell when the time comes, it just may require a bit more work on your part.

[SalahK]

Originally posted by aansorge



Of course the Legacy wagon is available too and would blow the doors off of all the above. Salah owns one and enjoys it.




Test drive a Legacy GT Wagon. You will be surprised at how well this 250bhp/3435lbs AWD car combines a fairly spacious, high quality interior with a terrific Ride/Handling compromise and Performance-Car humbling Performance! The Legacy is also more fun to drive than the Passat, the 325Xi (Xi does NOT come with the sport suspension) and the Mazda 6, which in turn are much more fun than the run-of-the-mill Accord/Camry type of car.

The Forester XT is a good alternative but the handling isn't nearly as good as the Legacy's but it is still far superior to the CR-V's dull handling.

If you do end up buying a Subaru, I can get you in touch with someone who can sell you one for under invoice.

If you MUST go with an SUV, try out the Saturn Vue V6. The Saturn's Honda V6 engine makes 250bhp and is the same basic engine found in the MDX, Pilot, Odessey, Accord, etc. The Redline package adds a sport suspension and cool bodywork at the expense of ride quality. Either way, it won't come anywhere near a Legacy's Ride/Handling Compromise but with a curb weight of about 3630, the Vue has a really impressive power-to-weight ratio for an SUV in this price range.

Get a Practical car that is also Fast and Fun-to-drive. What are you gonna do when you're driving down the highway in your "Practical Car" and a bloke in a '91 Mustang GT eggs you on. Or some ****** in a Touring-Car Lookalike Civic challenges you into a corner.

You're gonna step on it right? At least for a few seconds until you dust 'em....but not with a CR-V ;)

[Bob86ZZ4]

Hay, what's all this negative about the Rav4? My wife has a '97 that I really like. I looked at the Rav4 verses the CRV and I liked the interior features better in the Rav. Now this was before the latest CRV/Rav remodels. The big clincher tho was that the CRV is a zero clearance engine design. The RAv isn't. This means if you break a timing belt in the CRV it will most likely cause major engine problems if it happens at any kind of speed. If you break a belt in the Rav it will just shut down, no damage. This thing is awsum in snow and ice. Amazing traction. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Blue03CivicSi]

Originally posted by Bob86ZZ4The big clincher tho was that the CRV is a zero clearance engine design. The RAv isn't. This means if you break a timing belt in the CRV it will most likely cause major engine problems if it happens at any kind of speed. If you break a belt in the Rav it will just shut down, no damage.

CRV's have timing chains, at least the newer K24 engined ones ;)

[phile]

Originally posted by Blue03CivicSi


Originally posted by Bob86ZZ4The big clincher tho was that the CRV is a zero clearance engine design. The RAv isn't. This means if you break a timing belt in the CRV it will most likely cause major engine problems if it happens at any kind of speed. If you break a belt in the Rav it will just shut down, no damage.

CRV's have timing chains, at least the newer K24 engined ones ;)

Everything I have now has a timing chain rather than a belt.

[mym6]

I'm going to add a recommendation for the Mazda6 Sport Wagon. I've put just over 10,000 miles on my Wagon since getting it last June and it's a great car. You'd have to check it out for yourself to see if your dog could fit in the back with the rear seats up however.

Priced at about 25,000 new, all Mazda6 wagons have the 3.0 Duratec V6 mated with a 5spd stick, 5spd ATX (2004) or a 6spd ATX (2005). Avoid the 5spd ATX if you can as I think time will show it to have some heat issues causing failures but the 2005s with the 6spd have gotten much better comments. Gas mileage for me (5spd ATX) has been about 17 in town in the summer months and dipping as low as mid 13s this winter due to warming it up remotely. On the highway I have yet to hit the 27mpg on the sticker. This is an area the 6spd ATX is supposed to be better with as well.

The Mazda6 would be a decent choice for you because it also makes for a nice autox car and alot of people are having good luck with it. You can find some more info on the car at mazda6club.com or mazda6tech.com and of course mazdausa.com.

FWIW here is a pic of mine.

http://hannah.homelinux.net/albums/MyMazda6/IMG_0586.sized.jpg

[914 Dave]

I'll cast a vote for the Forrester. My wife has a 5sp "S" with all the goodies- cloth heated seats, tons-o-airbags, jumbo sun roof, and so on. I would have to say after 60k miles, it is balances more towards utility than sport, but what it may lack in ability to haul @ss it makes up in ability to haul stuff. We test drove the new turbo Forrester, liked it alot, but not enough to drop the cash to update. Its a work car for her, and to drop the extra cash to update for a car I drive maybe once a week seemed a bit much. We were majorly tempted by the GT wagon. If the Forrester were stolen tomorrow, a GT wagon would be in the driveway the next day. Big enough on the inside to haul all her painting/wallpapering supplies to satisfy her needs, and big enough under the hood to satisfy mine.

[aansorge]

You guys are all addicted to H.P.. One of the "cars" that brought the biggest smile to my face was a VW Thing. It took 47 seconds to get to 60 mph, but because of this, you had to beat the @#!$ out of it just to keep up with traffic. Talk about fun!

As far as the VUE goes, Salah, how about the rest of the car ;) . Many Vues are being recalled due to rear suspension failures. Is it really a quality product?

[pinhead]

Originally posted by aansorge


You guys are all addicted to H.P..

The BMW is really not all that fast. What struck me about the car was the handling, which is honestly as close to perfect as I can imagine for a station wagon. The fantastic sound of the inline six didn't hurt, either :D

I know the BMW is far from the fastest car in it's price range, but with handling that good, I don't think I'd miss the ponies :burnout: besides, the only time I drive fast (or try to drive fast that is) is when I'm autocrossin' :flame:

[pinhead]

Originally posted by mym6



The Mazda6 would be a decent choice for you because it also makes for a nice autox car and alot of people are having good luck with it.

I like the Mazda6, but I think if I spend that much money on our next car, it'll be a BMW.

And I have another car that I autocross, so that aspect doesn't matter a whole lot. Plus the Bimmer wouldn't exactly be shabby, either, although it'd be in the same class as the Legacy GT, so I think in the battle of the grocery getters, Salah's car would probably reign supreme.

[fitz]

Originally posted by Bob86ZZ4


Hay, what's all this negative about the Rav4? My wife has a '97 that I really like. I looked at the Rav4 verses the CRV and I liked the interior features better in the Rav. Now this was before the latest CRV/Rav remodels. The big clincher tho was that the CRV is a zero clearance engine design. The RAv isn't. This means if you break a timing belt in the CRV it will most likely cause major engine problems if it happens at any kind of speed. If you break a belt in the Rav it will just shut down, no damage. This thing is awsum in snow and ice. Amazing traction. Good luck with whatever you decide.

OTOH - your supposed to change out those belts BEFORE they break and the RAV 4 can't compete with the CRV for back-seat or cargo room.

Plus I never liked the fact the RAV 4 doesn't have a rear bumper, unless you consider the spare tire a rear bumber.

[SaturnRaycer]

A friend of mine just got a 2004 CRV. She wanted the manual tranny so she had to go with the EX model. Weird, the manual is only available in the top of the line. I think the AT is a great match for that engine - the '05 gets a 5spd auto.

[rdub]

But the RAV4 is way cooler looking than a CRV.
If you still want a Honda,I loved my Honda Element
Fold the seats up and its a truck inside

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by rdub
If you still want a Honda,I loved my Honda Element
Fold the seats up and its a truck inside

But my wife wouldn't be caught dead in one. She rates the styling only a half-step above the Aztek. The Element styling must be a guy thing. ;)

[SUV-ETR]

Perhaps I'm a little biased, but I'm all thumbs up when it comes to the Forester XT and the Legacy GT too. In addition to the 250hp and AWD, the new Legacy is SWEET inside. Much improved over previous ones. Both should be fine for a 90lb dog. My neighbors in Tampa had two of 'em in their Forester every day.

I also really like BMWs a lot. 3-series doesn't have much room. An older 5-series wagon would be sweet but their maintenance costs aren't cheap. There was a wagon with a 540 engine swap and a supercharger for sale in Tampa a few months ago. Think he wanted $25k or something like that. 400-some horses are quite effective at hauling groceries, and it looked very elegant yet aggressive with the factory 540 nose. :D

Another favorite of mine is the Volvo wagons. Ever since I drove an 850 turbo back in '94, I've had a bit of a soft spot for the looks, and their performance is great too. A used Audi might be worth checking out too.

[StevenMosley]

The Volvo V50 T5 and Subaru Legacy GT would be about the same price. The Subaru would have AWD for that price; but Volvo would be better looking, have nice interior, and come with a 6 speed. 3-Series wagons start at 32k. For another 5k you could be hauling your puppy around in style with 300hp to help you get from point 'a' to point 'b' in the form of a V70R wagon. If it was my dime I would stick with the CRV LX like you looked at. You have the Mini for playing and the CRV won't ever let you down. Plus dogs like trucks.

[73GT]

Hmm A CRV and a Rav4 are trucks
Roger you already have a cute car do you really want a cute-ute?
Sorry I forgot that "when she's happy your happy" thing.

73GT

[pinhead]

Originally posted by 73GT


Roger you already have a cute car do you really want a cute-ute?


Hehe, well, after getting our heating bill for December, and the way it's foreshadowing our heating bill for January and February, I don't think we can afford to feed anything bigger than a 'cute ute' and a 'cute car' ;) :barf:

Actually, my wife sorta likes the Element. We were listening to Car Talk one day, and the vehicle that they are currently recommending for dog owners is the Element (due to it's ease of cleaning) - and as big of a dog lover as she is, that was enough to put a halo on that car. And it's cheaper than a CRV. But I am undecided on the styling (although I would rank it far above the Aztek).

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by pinhead
Actually, my wife sorta likes the Element. We were listening to Car Talk one day, and the vehicle that they are currently recommending for dog owners is the Element (due to it's ease of cleaning) - and as big of a dog lover as she is, that was enough to put a halo on that car. And it's cheaper than a CRV. But I am undecided on the styling (although I would rank it far above the Aztek).

The Element definitely has more room than the CR-V, and it pretty much drives the same. I'd put it well above an Aztek in the styling department, but it appears to be one of those "love it or hate it" designs.

[aansorge]

I test drove a new Passat today and it reconfirms my feelings towards the cars: they are nice, quick, and classy. They gave me a figure of 21.3 K on a brand new 2004 Passat Wagon GLS 1.8t 5 spd with Monsoon, Cold Weather Package, sunroof, etc. Silver, black cloth. There is only one left in the area(or so they say), so if interested you better move.

[StevenMosley]

You might also want to check out the Toyota Martix and Vibe GT. The are pretty roomy and can come with the 180hp 1.8L with 6-speed screamer. I know you can find a used one and the reliablity on these are pretty high. It would be like an Elise, but weight 50% more.