August 23rd meeting

[DCM]

Meeting for Pine Run.
1400 Main St. S Pine city MN
Be there!

[DCM]

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&addtohistory=&formtype=address&searchtype=address&cat=&address=%5b1336%2d1399%5d%20Main%20St%20S&city=Pine%20City&state=MN&zipcode=55063&searchtab=home

It's at the High school, just south of town on [old] Hwy. 61

[SUV-ETR]

Meeting for Pine Run.
1400 Main St. S Pine city MN
Be there!

So, the meeting starts at 3am and goes 'till sundown?

[what time, Dwight?!?]

[DCM]

c: Scott Quick
Subject: [sccalol] Fw: Pine Run Motorsports Park Update

*
Here is a message I received from the Pine Run people.* Please read it.* They need our help with the EAW process.* This is a step that can make or break the project.* Please don't assume your voice won't matter, it will.* There is some local opposition so Pine Run needs all of us to actively support the project.* Just a few moments to send a brief letter could make the difference in whether we get to play at a new facility.

Thanks,
Mark Utecht
----- Original Message -----
From: Pine Run
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 9:44 AM
Subject: Pine Run Motorsports Park Update


Dear Supporters and Friends of Pine Run Motorsports Park,

We're e-mailing you today to inform you of our progress and further update you on our quest to bring you "Minnesota's Next Generation Race Facility." Our team has worked diligently on several professional studies for information required by a Minnesota mandated Environmental Assessment Worksheet (EAW). This worksheet addresses potential environmental issues associated with our selected site and project. The EAW has been completed and submitted to the Responsible Government Unit (RGU), being Pine County. From this point forward, the approval process for our project requires a public comment period August 1 - August 31. During this period, anyone having an interest in Pine Run can write a letter to Pine County supporting the project and also include comments.

We are now encouraging each of you, your motorsports friends, racing organizations, car clubs, future customers of Pine Run and those who see the local economic benefit of our project to take the time and write a letter to the Pine County Commissioners in support of our project. As a convenience in this e-mail, we have provided you with a support form to fill in your name, address and contact information that can be mailed to Pine County. This form may be answered by Pine County and further reviewed by the Pine County Commissioners. On September 20, the Pine County Commissioners will vote as a group to allow us to move forward with our project based on the findings of our Environmental Worksheet and input from the public, including you, our motorsports friends and supporters.

This is a very important time in our process. We have heard from hundreds of you in the drag racing, roadracing, go karting, autocrossing and business communities. Motorsports enthusiasts from Pine and Kanabec counties and all over Minnesota have made their wishes known to build Pine Run. We know that you share the same visions and ask that you take a few moments of your time to send your comments to the Pine County Commissioners.

Included in our approval process is a required public meeting scheduled and held by Pine County on August 23rd at 7:00 p.m. The location is the Pine City Middle School Commons, 1400 Main St., Pine City, MN. This is an important opportunity for you to make your support known. We encourage you to attend this meeting. At the meeting, Pine County will hear comments from individuals who wish to speak on our Environmental Assessment Worksheet (EAW), addressing items such as traffic, noise, vehicle emmissions, storm water management etc., those items contained in our EAW and specific to the track site we've selected. Please mark your calendars. If at all possible, we ask that you and your motorsports friends attend this meeting to show support for our project and provide your input with some of these issues. For those of you that can attend, you may want to get there early due to limited space.*

Pine Run's Environmental Assessment Worksheet (EAW) that indicates the work we've been doing leading up to all of this can be viewed online at www.pinecounty.org. This is a very lengthy document but worth taking the time to review.

We appreciate your support and look forward to one day meeting you, if we haven't already. Please take the time to write the Pine County Commissioners with the support form below and if at all possible attend the August 23rd public meeting in Pine City. With your help, we'll see this through and make Pine Run Motorsports Park the reality we all envision.

On behalf of everyone at Pine Run, again we appreciate your support!

Scott Quick




----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pine County Commissioners
1610 Hwy 23 N.

Sandstone, MN 55072

Dear Pine County Commissioners,

I the undersigned support and endorse the construction and operation of the proposed Pine Run Motorsports Park in Pokegama Township, Pine County, MN.



Date______________________________________________ _____

Name______________________________________________ ____

Address___________________________________________ _____

Town / City / Zip_________________________________________



Comments:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



--
http://www.scca-lol.org/
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I think it's 7:00 PM

[SmokingTires]

Is this months meeting going to be just on the Pine Run?


I was hoping to go over STS2 as being added to classing in MAC.

Or am I in the entirely wrong thread.... :?

[weidnerpaul]

Or am I in the entirely wrong thread.... :?

Yes you are, this months MAC meeting is on Wed August 31st at Parrish's Supper Club, the meeting on this thread is to support the proposed track by Pine City (meeting up there at 7:00 PM, come early) and the Track Planners are asking for the Twin Cities motorsports community to show up and support the track proposal. I plan on going, I imagine someone will start a thread for meeting/caravaning up there, with the price of gas pooling up there makes sense...
Paul

[SmokingTires]

Yes you are, this months MAC meeting is on Wed August 31st at Parrish's Supper Club, the meeting on this thread is to support the proposed track by Pine City (meeting up there at 7:00 PM, come early) and the Track Planners are asking for the Twin Cities motorsports community to show up and support the track proposal. I plan on going, I imagine someone will start a thread for meeting/caravaning up there, with the price of gas pooling up there makes sense...
Paul


Ok. Hopefully I can make it to the Pine City meeting. Always in for supporting more ventures of the motorsport nature.

[shane86]

Well, gas is getting expensive.
Anyone interested in getting together for a car pool?
I'd be willing to drive from the western suburbs (MTKA, St. Louis Park, Excelsior) if people are willing to chip in for some petrol.

[DCM]

My Camry will hold 5 adults. And I'm just a mile west of Hwy 65.
Anyone?

[Shrep]

Well, gas is getting expensive.
Anyone interested in getting together for a car pool?
I'd be willing to drive from the western suburbs (MTKA, St. Louis Park, Excelsior) if people are willing to chip in for some petrol.
I'd probably be down for that. I'm in Edina

[shane86]

I'd probably be down for that. I'm in Edina
That's cool. well, the scooby can fit one more comfortably (behind passenger) and one more semi comfortably (My seat doesn't get moved for nobody!)

[Dennis G.]

Aug. 23 is the public meeting at 7:00PM to discuss the Pine Run Motorsports Park at the Pine City Middle School. Motorsports people are encouraged
to attend to have their support and thoughts be known. Is anyone going?

[DCM]

Dennis
See upcoming events.....................




DCM
Senior Member

Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ham Lake, MN. 55304
Posts: 1,327
August 23rd meeting
Meeting for Pine Run.
1400 Main St. S Pine city MN
Be there!






__________________
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5 Days Ago #2
DCM
Senior Member

Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ham Lake, MN. 55304
Posts: 1,327
mapquest
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.ad...&searchtab=home

It's at the High school, just south of town on [old] Hwy. 61
__________________
http://bmcau

[DCM]

Who all is going?

We should have a strategy.................

[Chin]

They mentioned limited space... do we need to be concerned with that? I am not sure if I will be able to make it, that is the night I have meetings with various locations in Asia.

Christian Banks
#202 DSP
'00 Imreza 2.5RS

[shane86]

at this point I'm planning on heading up there.
Sherp, Still up for riding along? anyone Else?

Ouch... 1.5hr drive.
I think I'm going to have to leave at about 4:30 PM and grab some grub about half way there. Traffic is going to be a B!+CH.

I'm thinking, if you want to ride with me, i'll be meeting at the Ridgedale mall by the sinclare station at 4:15

[914 Dave]

Quit your whining, step up to the plate, buy the gas and do it!!!

Now I'll whine a little. I had this on my personal calander for weeks...

Mrs Me has put me on an auto event diet- till the kitchen is done, no car stuff for 914Dave... if you were here for the cheeze-cross and BBQ, come back next year and be amazed...

Anyway, I'm totally bummed not to be making it, and I'd have a farther drive than any of you- (maybe)

If they open up the floor for comments, I'd like to make this one, and if someone could make it for me, I'd appreciate it-

Auto cross makes you a better, safer street driver. More aware, looking ahead, able to react. But a big deal for me, was finding out what the car could REALLY do, in a safe, controlled environment. Suddenly "pushing" the car on the street became senseless. The car, (and driver), was capable of SO much more performance, SO much more adrenelin at an event, that the thought of even TRYING to duplicate that on public roads became laughable. The danger to me, my car, the old guy out for a walk, the lady with the stroller, the kid with the ball, the options for disaster were far to great to tempt fate by driving hard on public roads. My attitude changed, and so did my driving. In the end, I KNOW I'm a better driver than most others on the road, but I'm not out to prove it. Actually, I hope conditions never exist on "the streets" where I'll have to use these skills in an emergency situation.

Print this off and spread it around if it will help.

David Parsons
Driver Education Chair, MAC club.
Emod season champion.
FTD at M4.
Porsche club member.
Safe driver.

[SmokingTires]

Just printed it off Dave. I'll make sure someone asks it. If not me, I'll Make Paul do it :D

[914 Dave]

Someone who was there please post some comments on how things went.

thanks-

David (who wore the electrician hat tonight, and will be wearing the drywaller hat tomorrow night)

[shane86]

Well, there was a whole lotta nothin.
basically it was an open forum for the citizens to present concerns for the record. it wasn't a debate or anything, or a conversation really.

It's a necessary step if they feel that not all the necessary information was presented in the EAW (Environmental Action Worksheet.) now the questions presented at the meeting will be given to the pine run people and they will have the until another meeting at the end of the month to satisfy all the questions presented.

if they fail to do so, or the answers fail to add up, an EIS (Environmental Impact Study) will take place, where basically EVERYTHING has to be laid out before the people. the exact blueprints and layouts, plans for the drainage system, how they plan to control the noise, and the impacts on existing plants and animals.

i think it was good that representatives from various organizations such as the LOL and MAC were there for support, but frankly i think it did little to sway anyone.

Hell, me and Paul W. spent a lot of time passing notes and laughing at the foolishness of some of the comments being made.

Such as:
The noise will scare the wild life away (if nasa can launch a space shuttle in the middle of a wildlife preserve, i think the ducks will be fine. and god knows noise doesn't keep deer off the road.)
My Property value will decline because of the noise and traffic (Umm... Property value around BIR has gone up...)
The pollution of the race cars (as opposed to regular cars?)
The "added need for law enforcement and holding facilities" (so were trouble makers and are going to need to be locked up?)
The possiblity of the noise carrying 30+ miles (woa... i didn't know race cars ran on dynamite..)

But i tell you, walking in there really made you feel like a fish out of water, because since no one knew you, they instantly knew you were on the other side. i felt like i was being watched like a rodent in a field by a bunch of hawks until dwight showed up.

Frankly, i think the EIS is going to happen, as the EAW was missing some facts that were rather relevant.

You can check out the EAW on Pine Run's webiste.

Must.... Sleep... now...

[SmokingTires]

You mean you Paul and I passed notes ;)


It was pretty mucvh a citizen bitch session. However I really don't think it means anything. There weren't any elected officals there, and they weren't even taping it for records!

That showed that they obviously weren't taking it seriously. It was just to let people vent.


Be glad you didn't make the long drive there Dave. It 100% wouldn't have been worth it. Sadly it was a one sided bashing (since not many people showed to favor the track).

Paul and I left early and started home. It wasn't worth staying. A sad ****ty drive home :(

[DCM]

I copied this from the email I sent to the MAC board last night at 11:00P.M.

Well I went to the meeting in Pine City.
And to hear some people talk at this meeting, we obviously have done a very poor job of public relations.

There were comments of the meat wagon on it's run back and forth with maimed bodies to the Mora hospital. Gallons of spilled oil and gasoline, polluting local wells, and sewage being dumped into creeks and rivers.
Plus the 'coup de grai' house's not able to take the vibrations of dragsters up to 16 miles from the race track.
You know, falling apart from the vibrations.
Sheesh!
Well, it it wasn't so pathetic, it would be funny.

These folks are [brainwashed] really organized.
But they do NOT have a clue of what we do.
Whether or not Pine Run goes down in flames or not depends on some clear heads with the Pine county commissioners.
I don't know if I should put this on the forum or not?

Well here it is!

[914 Dave]

As a group, representing our club, just tossing out some ideas here, could/should we:

-get some letters of recomendation from our
-current lot owners that we rent from, supporting our group and its safety record
-our insurance carrier, showing that we are covered for an oops, and that we haven't had one in a while
-other clubs in the met counsel supporting our activities
-encourage other met C. clubs to do the same for their groups
-SCCA?
-PCA
-other national car groups? -offer an open invitation to anyone from the Pine City nay-sayers group, or any of the commissioners, to come to an event w/free entry and all the instruction/ride alongs with board members they can handle? Even if an event was full we'd have to make room for maybe a dozen more- worth the extra effort to me.

Personally, I'd be willng to take the weight of interested passingers for all 6 of my runs if it had the possibliity of making the slightest difference.

Perhaps this should be discussed and voted on at the next club meeting.

I wonder who we might contact about surrounding conditions at BIR, noting that they have their own motel on property, (which hasn't falled down from the "vibrations") and plenty of residential housing that has built up over time around the track... Maybe the local building inspector? Maybe contact realtors in the Elkhart Lake area, as there is a rise in building/marketing houses by the track for the racing community. And, how would those folks be for neighbors? Money to burn, seasonal residents, providing a buffer between the track and the rest of the world, buying up and using that property others deem worthless due to the track? It wouldn't happen overnight, but it could, and would benefit Pine County year round for its tax base, and benefiting the retail community every event weekend.


Lastly, lets not forget this is an open forum for any and all to read and comment to. Lets keep this positive and not bash anyone- we all have our opinions, lets just respect this and put out best foot forward, as we always do. Then put that foot on the gas and GO!

David

[MNbiker]

As a group, representing our club, just tossing out some ideas here, could/should we:

-get some letters of recomendation from our
-current lot owners that we rent from, supporting our group and its safety record
-our insurance carrier, showing that we are covered for an oops, and that we haven't had one in a while
-other clubs in the met counsel supporting our activities
-encourage other met C. clubs to do the same for their groups
-SCCA?
-PCA
-other national car groups? -offer an open invitation to anyone from the Pine City nay-sayers group, or any of the commissioners, to come to an event w/free entry and all the instruction/ride alongs with board members they can handle? Even if an event was full we'd have to make room for maybe a dozen more- worth the extra effort to me.


One thing to keep in mind is that Autocross is barely a blip on the radar screen for opponents of (and promoters of) Pine Run. This facility is primarily designed to be a membership-based road racing track. The plans include a smallish "vehicle dynamics" area that will apparently be available for autocross. At this point, we have no assurances that A) the lot will be large enough to justify the 1 hour+ drive B) that rent will be reasonable and C) that the site will be readily available to autocross clubs.

While I'm all in favor of new motorsports sites, this project will succeed or fail based on the support (in terms of memberships) that developers can obtain from road racing & track time enthusiasts. MAC's interests are peripheral (at best) to this business model. Unless MAC can deliver a bunch of track memberships to the developers, I can't see us having that big a voice in the project.

Therefore, while I'm all in favor of showing informal support for the project, I just don't see how spending a lot of effort on Pine Run is time well spent. I'd far rather have members chasing down sites that are already in existence.

On the other hand, there are other Met Council Club should have a much greater vested interest in Pine Run - SCCA in particular.

-Steve

[Chin]

One thing to keep in mind is that Autocross is barely a blip on the radar screen for opponents of (and promoters of) Pine Run. This facility is primarily designed to be a membership-based road racing track. The plans include a smallish "vehicle dynamics" area that will apparently be available for autocross. At this point, we have no assurances that A) the lot will be large enough to justify the 1 hour+ drive B) that rent will be reasonable and C) that the site will be readily available to autocross clubs.

While I'm all in favor of new motorsports sites, this project will succeed or fail based on the support (in terms of memberships) that developers can obtain from road racing & track time enthusiasts. MAC's interests are peripheral (at best) to this business model. Unless MAC can deliver a bunch of track memberships to the developers, I can't see us having that big a voice in the project.

Therefore, while I'm all in favor of showing informal support for the project, I just don't see how spending a lot of effort on Pine Run is time well spent. I'd far rather have members chasing down sites that are already in existence.

On the other hand, there are other Met Council Club should have a much greater vested interest in Pine Run - SCCA in particular.

-Steve

Sorry, Steve, but I feel that is the wrong attitude. I happen to be one of those that would be interested in a membership. I am not affiliated with any other (remaining) local clubs and this club is my "input." For us to turn and say that it is only possible it will meet our needs so we are going to let someone else support it is irresponsible, w.r.t. motorsports. There are obviously many proponents in this club and while they may have affiliations with some of the "other" clubs, they are indeed still our members.

However, I am at a loss on how to affect this in a positive way...I am not known for my ability to positively affect things with the general public. When I hear things like what was stated previously, I just want to shoot the ignorant! See, I wouldn't be a good politician! Anyway, I think we should support this in any way we can...

Christian Banks
#202 DSP
'00 Impreza 2.5RS

[SmokingTires]

However, I am at a loss on how to affect this in a positive way...I am not known for my ability to positively affect things with the general public. When I hear things like what was stated previously, I just want to shoot the ignorant! See, I wouldn't be a good politician! Anyway, I think we should support this in any way we can...

Christian Banks
#202 DSP
'00 Impreza 2.5RS

Don't worry about it though. At this point, it is pretty much up to the elected officals to make the smart choice, even if not popular.

It should really tell you something if the county is willing to hold this meeting, but doesn't car enough to even record it :lol: They just wanted to let people vent. If they really cared what they thought, they would have had audio recording at least.

So don't worry. If it happens, it happens. It's all up to the big wigs now.

[MNbiker]

Sorry, Steve, but I feel that is the wrong attitude. I happen to be one of those that would be interested in a membership. I am not affiliated with any other (remaining) local clubs and this club is my "input." For us to turn and say that it is only possible it will meet our needs so we are going to let someone else support it is irresponsible, w.r.t. motorsports. There are obviously many proponents in this club and while they may have affiliations with some of the "other" clubs, they are indeed still our members.

However, I am at a loss on how to affect this in a positive way...I am not known for my ability to positively affect things with the general public. When I hear things like what was stated previously, I just want to shoot the ignorant! See, I wouldn't be a good politician! Anyway, I think we should support this in any way we can...

Christian Banks
#202 DSP
'00 Impreza 2.5RS

I don't dispute there may be a number of MAC members interested in being members at Pine Run. If members want to help promote the project, fantastic.

I guess my primary point was that MAC is an AUTOCROSS club, and the club's interests aren't necessarily in synch with those of the Pine Run developers. I'm simply unconvinced MAC will see much direct benefit from the project, unless we decide to start holding high-speed events. Has anyone talked with Jed in person, to gauge how much he really cares about autocross? Based on the size of the "vehicle dynamics" area, it's proximity to the kart track, garages, etc. - it appears autocross was at best an afterthought in the planning process. If there will be drag races on weekends (filling up the paddock space), and the kart track (accessed via the vehicle dynamics lot) is open to the public , how is it possible to support autocross events as well? Personally, I'd like to have a better idea what the benefits might be for MAC, before getting too carried away supporting the project as an organization. Am I missing something?

From an organizational perspective, it might make the most sense to support the project through the Met Council, as the other member clubs regularly sponsor track events, and umbrella organizations like Met Council generally carry more clout.

Just my opinions, which I'm sure many disagree with....

-Steve

[rdub]

Steve is correct on Pine Whatever
These types of places aren't for autoX guys,and most of the folks trying to get these going don't know or care about autoX events or needs.
Ever see them soliciting at a MAC event,NO
We can teach them,but the truth is they can't get enough money out of us to make it worth while paving a giant AutoX lot
I know all you "young guys"are gung-ho for track days and such
But I suspect that the standard $20,000 membership start-up dues
and $5000 per year maintainence fees per member are a little high for most of us.
So I would spend my time with our club and workin our sites we have and events

[914 Dave]

Steve, don't agree with all of what you had to say...

Agree that to this developer, we are the small fish in the pond, and that we don't even really know how well or not this facility will fit our needs. As far as drive time, its still a long ways for me, compaired to central, midway, dakota...

I think the only developer that would put our needs as an auto cross club FIRST would be Dwight, and look how far he's gotten with his "I have a dream". (just kidding Dwight)

And along the topic of our X-president for life, I believe it was he who said "hang togather or hang alone". And to a degree, this is what happened this spring with the closing of several venues to our use. By getting togather with other Met C. clubs, PCA, COM we were able to gain entry back to these venues.

Can this Pine Run thing be that much different? While we may not be the main draw to the developer, why not make our (small) voice heard. Something, as far as a site, is better than nothing, and more variety of sites is more better. Even if the site is a little ways north...

[MNbiker]

Can this Pine Run thing be that much different? While we may not be the main draw to the developer, why not make our (small) voice heard. Something, as far as a site, is better than nothing, and more variety of sites is more better. Even if the site is a little ways north...

I don't disagree that dialogue should happen. However, it's my opinion the most productive dialogue MAC can have is directly with the Pine Run developers, not in community comment sessions. There are models where this type of facility can also support autocross. BeaveRun http://www.beaverun.com (http://www.beaverun.com/) is the best example I'm aware of. It's worth noting, Alan Wilson, the designer for BeaveRun, is also listed as the designer for Pine Run.

What I'm hoping DOESN'T happen is a facility like AutoBahn http://www.autobahncountryclub.net/. As far as I'm aware, no autocross clubs are using AutoBahn for events.

-Steve

[DCM]

As in from a rope on a gallows....

MAC has in the past done high speed track days.
I.E. 'MAC does BIR' 1992.
I wuz there......

I spoke with several of the folk's opposed to the track before the meeting.
They do have some good points.
I just wanted to show, and tell them what we are like, and what we do.

Hopefully my wild eyes, and flailing arms didn't alarm them too much.

I suspect that the price of real estate isn't too high around Hennriette.
However, the low lying, water soaked ground could be a problem. If they dig 'er all out, like has been done in Blaine, then problem is solved.
Wait and see.